Deep space 9

Ok I am watching the DVD's - all the seasons - got them at the library.

my question is this:

SO DS9 has replicators.

And then there's quarks - now why would people pay money at quarks when they can just go to the replicator for free?

Kara Baxter said:

Ok I am watching the DVD's - all the seasons - got them at the library.

my question is this:

SO DS9 has replicators.

And then there's quarks - now why would people pay money at quarks when they can just go to the replicator for free?

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For food and drink? Maybe they get charged at the replicator?

Actually, it pains me to remember DS9. God, I couldn't stand that show.

Kara Baxter said:

Ok I am watching the DVD's - all the seasons - got them at the library.

my question is this:

SO DS9 has replicators.

And then there's quarks - now why would people pay money at quarks when they can just go to the replicator for free?

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Well of course, the Quarters are small, so you get more than 4 or 5 people in a party, and you start running out of Elbow room, plus, more than that many people and someone's gonna damage your stuff. Plus, there's probably regulations about how many people can ocupy the space for a set period of time, it is a Military, Socialist society, afterall.

Plus, Quarks is where the lonely people go, to reach out to others, instead of being lonely. It's the Social hub, you have evenings in, but, you still want to go to the "Night Club" to "Get Out" on occasion, and if you could do it without having to drive, there's even more incentive, IMHO!!!

Never understood the DS9 hate. Yes...it's a B5 ripoff and all that. But, although I enjoyed episodes here and there in TNG, there was no binding thread. DS9, I enjoyed the Religious/Political intritrigue and machinations. Yes, it was only planned out a couple seasons in advance, and it suffered for it and never stood up to B5, but, I enjoy much of it, more than any other Sequel Series (I also really enjoy Enterprise S4, it's what that series should've been all along, IMHO, despite my repulsion to Scott Bakula as an actor/character...No Personality)

Sindatur said:

Never understood the DS9 hate. Yes...it's a B5 ripoff and all that. But, although I enjoyed episodes here and there in TNG, there was no binding thread. DS9, I enjoyed the Religious/Political intritrigue and machinations. Yes, it was only planned out a couple seasons in advance, and it suffered for it and never stood up to B5, but, I enjoy much of it, more than any other Sequel Series.

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I'm with you for the most part there. I totally dig the Bajorans. I wished they'd focussed more on the whole Prophets/Bajor arc. It only seemed to become important in the later series. However I think if they'd have been brave and gone with it, a lot of the Trek purists would have gone ape!

Was it not also supposed to be a direct analogy of the Yugoslavian conflict? I've seen that cited on several top ten sci fi rundowns.

(I also really enjoy Enterprise S4, it's what that series should've been all along, IMHO, despite my repulsion to Scott Bakula as an actor/character...No Personality)

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Yeah, Enterprise was one series that really DIDN'T need to be burdened with a heavy arc. First couple of series I was okay with, when they went with the Xindi storyline I started to lose interest big time. I was okay with the Russell Watson music... but when they tinkered with it adding a synthetic beat, it just sounded tacky. I think if they were going to change the music they should have gone orchestra and maybe used the First Contact theme or even a mix of the Enterprise theme used at the end.

Arcs shouldn't leave you with a feeling of "oh no... not again! When will this end?" I really had that feeling with the Xindi plot. When that was resolved and Archer woke up among Nazi aliens I had a sinking feeling of "Here we go again!"

It left me feeling pretty negative.

But yes it did seem to be back on track with the final series.

Trip was a bit too Dubya in space for my liking.

As to Bakula, I think he did very well in Quantum Leap... which has a special place in my heart.

Quarks' sells real alcohol (or the alien equivalent) that will really get you wasted. Replicators give a simulation which isn't "the real stuff". Isn't that part of it?

Also, other pleasures are at Quark's: the holodecks for one. And of course the social element. Why do people pay to enter nightclubs and pay far too much for drinks? Same kind of thing.

Sindatur said:

Never understood the DS9 hate.

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I wouldn't go so far as to say that I hate it, which is like 10 out of 10 on a scale of dislike, to me. I'd say it's more like an 8 out of 10 on the dislike scale.

Sindatur said:

Yes...it's a B5 ripoff and all that.

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I disliked DS9 years before I ever knew it was a B5 ripoff. I disliked DS9 on it's own merits (or more like lack of merits). I never could stand Ben Sisko, especially his voice. He always sounded pompous, full of himself. I never could stand the kids (Jake and Nog). They were to DS9 what Kim Bauer was to 24 (a.k.a. The perils of Kimmy), always getting into trouble. Pains in the ass. Argh!!! I couldn't stand the whiny, sneaky Bajorans, especially Kai Whatsherface played by Louise Fletcher. Keiko was another pain in the ass. The place was populated by pains in the ass.

The whole time when all they had were runabouts, the show was boring. When Worf was stationed there, and they had that battle with the Klingons, it got better, but by then, I couldn't stand it anymore. I remember thinking, as I transitioned to VOY: "Maybe nobody can make an interesting show based around a space station. Maybe a road show, like old TOS and TNG would be better." Of course, VOY was as bad or worse. Then I was introduced to B5, and it became immediately apparent that an excellent show could be based around a space station.

I don't know if it's the writing, the actor, or both, but to me, Andreas as G'Kar runs rings around Brooks as Sisko. Andreas/G'Kar (with JMS's 1993-1998 writing) has more personality in his pinky finger than Brooks/Sisko has in his whole body.

Sindatur said:

But, although I enjoyed episodes here and there in TNG, there was no binding thread.

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There wasn't meant to be. That's OK; it wasn't an arc kind of show.

Sindatur said:

DS9, I enjoyed the Religious/Political intritrigue and machinations.

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I enjoyed them in B5 and couldn't stand them in DS9. See, B5 had characters I liked, and on DS9, I highly disliked most of the characters. The exceptions were Miles O'Brien, Worf, Jadzia Dax and maybe Quark.

Sindatur said:

Yes, it was only planned out a couple seasons in advance, and it suffered for it and never stood up to B5,

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See, I never really made much of a comparison, DS9 to B5. I prefer to forget DS9. "Lyta, selective mindwipe needed on isle 5."

Sindatur said:

but, I enjoy much of it, more than any other Sequel Series (I also really enjoy Enterprise S4, it's what that series should've been all along, IMHO, despite my repulsion

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revulsion?

Sindatur said:

to Scott Bakula as an actor/character...No Personality)

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To me, Enterprise Seasons 1 & 2 were boring. I liked Season 3, except for the last few minutes of the Season 3 finale, when the space nazis were sprung on us. I was so pissed off by that ending that I dropped Enterprise right then and there. I didn't watch Enterprise Season 4 until renting the Season 4 DVDs on Netflix in Feb. 2008, 3.3 years later. I didn't see how Coto would be able to dig himself out of the deep hole Beavis and Butthead had made for him. ...but he did, Coto succeeded, until his efforts were torpedoed by the Beavis & Butthead penned Season 4 finale.

If there are any typos in tha above, please bear with me; I've been up 30 hours. Going to go crash now. Zzzzzzzzzz.

Hyp - ok, i guess i didn't make the connection that Quark served real alcohol. and yea - the replicators serve 'sinthal".

Kosh - I was always a Treker, until DS9 - then couldn't stand it, cus i couldn't stand any of the characters.

But Since i have watched all my sci fi stuff - B5, farscape, Stargate, lexx, ST, STNG, Voyeger --- DS9 was on the 'ok i guess i will watch it"

and watching it back to back on DVD - oh i get it now...and it doesn't suck so much!

I like Odo. I dislike Keira. And Worf gets so abused!

Kara Baxter said:

Hyp - ok, i guess i didn't make the connection that Quark served real alcohol. and yea - the replicators serve 'sinthal".

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Synthahol? Could it get characters drunk or was it the near beer of alcoholic drinks?

Kara Baxter said:

Kosh - I was always a Treker, until DS9 - then couldn't stand it, cus i couldn't stand any of the characters.

But Since i have watched all my sci fi stuff - B5, farscape, Stargate, lexx, ST, STNG, Voyeger --- DS9 was on the 'ok i guess i will watch it"

and watching it back to back on DVD - oh i get it now...and it doesn't suck so much!

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I'd still have a revulsion to most of the characters, like fingernails on a chalkboard.

Kara Baxter said:

I like Odo. I dislike Keira. And Worf gets so abused!

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I was pretty much neutral on Odo. Never liked Keira.

KoshN said:

Kara Baxter said:

Hyp - ok, i guess i didn't make the connection that Quark served real alcohol. and yea - the replicators serve 'sinthal".

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Synthahol? Could it get characters drunk or was it the near beer of alcoholic drinks?

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You'd have to check the source for that, I don't recall. Was it mentioned in TNG or TOS? I do recall the "sythale" being mentioned in TNG. Several times, I think, but noteably when Picard's brother warns him that the wine he was being served was the real stuff, and they eventually got into a fight in the mud. Brothers.

Just so you know, Kara, not everyone here hunts down threads just to mention how much they hated DS9.

I liked the series. I think I watched it weekly before I watched B5 on a weekly basis. I won't debate those who disliked it, though as I mention it does surprise me when people go out of their way to find reasons to mention how much they disliked it.

I liked all of the characters. Odo was my favorite, I suppose, with Kira next. Dax was always interesting, and I think she and Kira were excellent characters. Probably the Doctor the least, although they made him a bit more human later in the series, and so more likeable. The Captain wasn't actually given much to do to make him stand out early on, but grew on me later.

I particularly liked getting to know O'Brien better. And Worf, though others will say he was a watered down version of the character, he seemed more like he was more flexible after having had experience.

Quark was always Quark. Sometimes every entertaining, sometimes stuck in bad "comic relief episodes".

Anyhow, just putting 2 cents in from the camp that actually did enjoy the series.

Enjoy watching.

hypatia said:

KoshN said:

Kara Baxter said:

Hyp - ok, i guess i didn't make the connection that Quark served real alcohol. and yea - the replicators serve 'sinthal".

Click to expand...

Synthahol? Could it get characters drunk or was it the near beer of alcoholic drinks?

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You'd have to check the source for that, I don't recall. Was it mentioned in TNG or TOS? I do recall the "sythale" being mentioned in TNG. Several times, I think, but noteably when Picard's brother warns him that the wine he was being served was the real stuff, and they eventually got into a fight in the mud. Brothers.

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I remember the TNG episode with Scotty ("Relics" ? I have it on tape, somewhere.), and Scotty was indicating his preference for the real thing, drinking in a holodeck simulation of the TOS Enterprise bridge.

hypatia said:

Just so you know, Kara, not everyone here hunts down threads just to mention how much they hated DS9.

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I didn't hunt it down. The thread showed up (as a new thread), I looked at it, and she asked. So I answered.

hypatia said:

I liked the series. I think I watched it weekly before I watched B5 on a weekly basis. I won't debate those who disliked it, though as I mention it does surprise me when people go out of their way to find reasons to mention how much they disliked it.

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I didn't go out of my way. There wasn't much going on (Never is much going on in B5 circles these days. ), and I was bored.

hypatia said:

I liked all of the characters.

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Good grief!

hypatia said:

Odo was my favorite, I suppose, with Kira next. Dax was always interesting, and I think she and Kira were excellent characters.

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I was glad when Terry Farrell got dumped off of DS9 and made it to "Becker." Wish she wouldn't have been dumped off of "Becker" because there I loved her character (Reggie). Terry must be a pain in real life, and I hear she swears like a sailor, but I liked her on DS9 and especially "Becker."

Galahad said:

I'm with you for the most part there. I totally dig the Bajorans. I wished they'd focussed more on the whole Prophets/Bajor arc. It only seemed to become important in the later series.

Was it not also supposed to be a direct analogy of the Yugoslavian conflict? I've seen that cited on several top ten sci fi rundowns.

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Well, actually, when the Bajorans were first introduced in ST:NG, they were clearly space Palestinians, with obvious references to then-current events. That pretty much disappeared for DS9, but I never got that they were Yugoslavian.

I liked DS9. It had its moments. But, it could be pretty lame at times.

In the second season TNG episode "Up The Long Ladder" (and no, I don't just know the season and episode title from memory; I had to look it up), Worf uses the replicators to produce actual alcoholic alcohol.

Transcript of "Up The Long Ladder"

WORF: You sent for me?
DANILO: Ah, yes, yes. Now, we're brewing poteen, but we need to find a way to heat it without this bloody ship firing bloody lightning bolts at us.
WORF: You can obtain spirituous liquours from the food dispensers.
DANILO: Oh, no, no, no. It's not that synthehol bilge that O'Brien offered me, is it?
WORF: No, if you wish, it can be real alcohol.
DANILO: Good.
WORF: With all of the deleterious effects intact.
DANILO: As it should be. You see, lad, every moment of pleasure in life has to be purchased by an equal moment of pain. Whiskey.
(a glass appears, and Danilo samples it)
DANILO: Terrible. It's got no bite.
WORF: Chech'tluth.
(A Klingon mug, with steam coming off it. The top Danilo's head does a somersault)
DANILO: Now that's what I call a wee drop of the creature.

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I imagine the reason people go to Quark's is for the same reason people go to bars in today's time instead of always drinking at home: socialization.

My UPN station actually played them on Wednesdays back to back; DS9 at 8pm, and B5 at 9pm, so they are like a set in my mind, DS9 was the opening act, and B5 was the Headliner.

Count me among the DS lovers. I think it's the best of all modern Treks.

As far as synthahol, it was Ferengi invention. Data explained t to Scotty that it the same effect as alcohol, but one could easily overcome the deleterious effects. So basically it sounds like you could just decide you weren't drunk anymore.

The key thing the DS9 writers and producers wanted to do is add some grit and "dark" to the Trek universe, going against the utopianism of what came before and especially the sterile feel of TNG. So you have a violent resistance movement, religion infused into military and colonial conflicts, and an actual for-real bar.

Quarks is the first time in Trek you really see gambling, hard liquor, and sort of a sex trade. Why go to Quarks? 'Cuase it's the only place in the whole Federation a person can have a real good time.

I've seen very little of DS9. Most of it centered around Garak, however, so what I've seen, I've liked.

Jade Jaguar said:

Galahad said:

I'm with you for the most part there. I totally dig the Bajorans. I wished they'd focussed more on the whole Prophets/Bajor arc. It only seemed to become important in the later series.

Was it not also supposed to be a direct analogy of the Yugoslavian conflict? I've seen that cited on several top ten sci fi rundowns.

Click to expand...

Well, actually, when the Bajorans were first introduced in ST:NG, they were clearly space Palestinians, with obvious references to then-current events. That pretty much disappeared for DS9, but I never got that they were Yugoslavian.

I liked DS9. It had its moments. But, it could be pretty lame at times.

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I never got the Bajoran problems as Yugoslavian conflict. Where as the three sided Minbari civil war obviously was.

Ok I'm remembering everything different than you guys.

The Bajoran/prophet business was the primary focus of the show in its first 2 or 3 yrs.
The second season begins with a 3-episode arc where there's some sort of civil war / power-play amongst Bajorans, involving Cardassians, and ends with Nurse Ratchet becoming the Bajoran pope.

It was only in season 3 or 4 where the focus was shifted to the Dominion.

GKarsEye said:

Ok I'm remembering everything different than you guys.

The Bajoran/prophet business was the primary focus of the show in its first 2 or 3 yrs.
The second season begins with a 3-episode arc where there's some sort of civil war / power-play amongst Bajorans, involving Cardassians, and ends with Nurse Ratchet becoming the Bajoran pope.

It was only in season 3 or 4 where the focus was shifted to the Dominion.

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Yeah, I meant more the Prophets themselves... not the Bajoran belief system surrounding them. The latter featured heavily, but the Prophets own appearances were rather fleeting... were they not?

and ends with Nurse Ratchet becoming the Bajoran pope.

See, i did NOT make that connection till today! I looked at Kai Winn and asked myself over and over, GOD SHE LOOKS SO FAMILIAR! where have i seen her...

then today, i was watching "one who flew over the cookoos nest"

HA!

Anyway...i just don't know why star fleet is hell bent on wearing pants that shows men's johnson outlines...

WHY!!

Another thing that is distressing - is that Jadzea dies...but Dax lives??
bha!

And the synthaol or sinthal = doesn't get you drunk!