The Second Babylon 5 Film

Just to keep Colonyearth happy. What do you think the second Babylon 5 film will be about?

This is a chance to go over the possible spin offs in the last 4 episodes of Babylon 5 plus Crusade, Rangers and “The Deconstruction of Falling Stars”. Simply because we have done this before does not meant that we cannot have fun doing it again.

Hi, I'm new. You can call me Dan, WCHero, or whatever -- just don't call me Shirley.

We still don't know if we'll get a *first* B5 film, but in the interest of reckless fun . . .

The only stories I can think of that would be great in particular for the big screen are the Teep War and the story of David. We know some snippets of what happens, but they could potentially have quite a scope.

It'd be great to see the crew of B5 again, especially Vir and Ta'Lon, but stories that solely focus on the station should probably be kept to telefilms.

More than anything, I want Crusade back, but the point seems moot, unless there's a big B5 revival in movies, and the Crusade DVD sales go through the roof. Failing that, Galen travels on his own enough that he could work into other B5 stories. Rangers had promise, too.

The coolest new spin-off I can think of would be the story of re-building after the Great Burn. It's kind of close to the kind of show Jeremiah is, but Joe's comic Supreme Power sounded a lot like Rising Stars at first, and that was way off. We'd see different factions and characters with different agendas and ideas about what should be done. We'd have at least one ranger who has a fuller idea of the truth, and over time, we'd see what's going on in the universe at large.

I also think the last Great War has more potential than some others do, though it probably couldn't support a series, and wouldn't have the mass appeal needed for the big screen. But a TV movie or mini-series? You bet. Sure, we know Valen forms the Council and the Rangers, lays the groundwork for future Minbari society, drives away the Shadows, hooks back up with Catherine, and probably hangs out with Zathras more than anyone should have to. B5 was always about the process, and the way those things came about could be a lot more interesting than we know. Besides, just because the Shadow War was the most historically important thing to happen back then, other things could come up -- big, unexpected things. JMS has been explicit, too, that there's a story to tell with G'Quan. Oh, and don't forget Kosh and Ulkesh.

Or maybe I just want to hear Michael O'Hare say "The name of the place . . . is Babylon 4!"

Or maybe Draal has a little too much fun with the time-space continuum, and we get "Marcus, Texas Ranger!" Throw in Lyta and G'Kar for quite the hootinany! (sp?)

I mean, I'd watch it.

It would be sorta fun to see the last Shadow War, but since there would be zero humans in this one, it would be too expensive to make, so would never happen.

Like Joe, I don't see the interest in having the story of David. Just because he's Sheridan & Delenn's kid doesn't mean he'll amount to anything as heroic as his parents. The only thing of interest that happens to him is the keeper, and its already been told in the Centauri Trilogy.

For me, the only thing that would really interest me would be the Teep War and the conclusion of the Drakh Plague. Of course, I'm not going to say no to anything else in the b5 universe! Its just I really want to see those 2 things resolved.

Btw, welcome WChero! *waves hand*

It would be sorta fun to see the last Shadow War, but since there would be zero humans in this one, it would be too expensive to make, so would never happen.

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Actually, I think there are ways to do this, which wouldn't have that problem. The 13th century Shadow War probably isn't all the inherently interesting, and the part involving Valen is actually quite short. (He arrives late in the war when the Alliance is about to lose, turns the tide and leads them to victory - and probably doesn't take terribly long doing it.)

The main thing Valen did is reform Minbari society after the war, and put in place the prophecies and the institutions that would be needed to fight the next one. I could easily envision a project where this part of the story is told in flashback, almost in counterpoint to a "current" story, with a structure something like The Godfather Part II. Sheridan and Delenn's reshaping of the Rangers could be contrasted with Valen's problems in founding them. (Either simply by intercutting the two or actually by having Sheridan and Delenn read documents from the early days of the Anla'shok looking for ideas and guidance.) The story could also be played from another point of view, with the older Sheridan reflecting on Valen and his work as he deals with some crisis or another while preparing for the ceremony that will make him Entil'zha.

Or Valen's founding of the new Minbari social and political order, settling squabbles between the castes could be intercut with Delenn and Sheridan's problems in getting the IA established on Minbar making the Alliance a reality.

That's just one story. Since Rangers isn't to be and another series seems unlikely, why not answer the mystery of The Hand and polish off that storyline in a film? Ditto the blasted Drakh plague, so that people at least stop asking about it. (The film doesn't have to say that there's a problem with the cure.)

Regards,

Joe

Hrm... Well, if we're merely dreaming here, I'd like to either see a treatment of Lyta and G'Kar's travels, or something about the IA after the Teep War but before G'Kar's untimely end on Centauri Prime -- in other words, the time period where G'Kar was advisor to Sheridan, and could conceivably be around a _lot_, and get all sorts of screentime.

I'd also really like to see _any_ of the trilogies brought to the screen, but probably leaning just a little more toward the Technomage trilogy.

Aisling

...the time period where G'Kar was advisor to Sheridan, and could conceivably be around a _lot_, and get all sorts of screentime.

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Citizen G'Kar: Interstellar Man of Mystery.

YEAH, baby!



Joe

I want to defrost Marcus

Nancy,

I would point out that the only thing we know of that happens to David is the keeper, but would also note that the keeper episode hardly fits the bill of JMS's quote that he did "something radical...something disturbing. Because he's Sheridan and Delenn's son...what else are you going to expect?" This implies something active, not passive. There clearly is more of a story here than "he got taken over by a keeper and nothing much happened and then he was freed" which is what we know so far... for the keeper takeovers happened to others NOT "Sheridan and Delenn's son." Agree though that the second movie seems a bit early to pass the torch!

So, what backstories remain between OaR and SiL? The TeepWar, clearly, if not resolved in the current project. The fate of Vir. The fate of Lyta, if not resolved in the current project. How the data crystal ended up in the dead cat (and how the cat got into the stomach of the... well, maybe that isn't a mystery).

I just hope neither the first nor the second movie is as contrived and un-B5-like as Thirdspace!

Citizen G'Kar: Interstellar Man of Mystery.

YEAH, baby!

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Gack! You are in _so_ much trouble, Joe! Because now I cannot seem to clear my mind of G'Kar saying things like "Do I make you horny?" Egads, somebody get me a brain enema, or at least one of those earwigs that goes in and eats out the part of your brain that remembers the last five minutes...or the last Austin Powers film. Or, maybe a P12 will do.

Aisling

I suspect that Sheridan does something major as head of the Rangers in the last 2 years of his life.

Sheridan and Delenn can take part in West Wing in Space.

A teep colony may be created, possibly by Lyta.

Garabaldi has several black projects to hunt down.

Franklin has new ilnesses to solve.

A set of hyperspace hiways need creating.

Number one has some spying to do.

Lochley has some deplomacy to do.

Wild telepath Alisa Beldon has her adventures.

G'Kar does things post Lyta.

I would point out that the only thing we know of that happens to David is the keeper, but would also note that the keeper episode hardly fits the bill of JMS's quote that he did "something radical...something disturbing. Because he's Sheridan and Delenn's son...what else are you going to expect?" This implies something active, not passive. There clearly is more of a story here than "he got taken over by a keeper and nothing much happened and then he was freed" which is what we know so far... for the keeper takeovers happened to others NOT "Sheridan and Delenn's son." Agree though that the second movie seems a bit early to pass the torch!

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Sigh. I should have looked this up before, when it was being discussed on the previous thread, but I wasn't motivated enough. So, thanks to private e-mail and help from Jan of the moderated ng (who can't seem to post here -- thanks to AOL, now much faster at restricting your internet access!), I finally have something productive to add to this discussion...and which will hopefully stop it dead in its tracks:

">>When Babylon 5 was finished, there were many plot threads left hanging - some of them major ones. For example - David Sheridan's fate<<

That will be covered in one of the Centauri novels being written by Peter David."

That's a quote from JMS himself, dated 2/1/2000.

Aisling

I quite agree. JMS's commentary track obviously refers to what happens to David obliquely from the point of view of what is revealed in "Deconstruction" JMS cannot and does not expect everyone watching the DVDs to have read (or even know about) the books. And I think JMS has also learned something about the DVDs since the first season. While he assumed that the discs would mostly be bought by fans who had already seen the show several times, it has become clear since that a lot of the folks viewing the DVDs are new fans - either folks who have been lent the discs by friends or who took a chance on the discs and got hooked. So he may be more circumspect about spoilers in an S4 commentary than he was in an S1.

And the "radical thing" that David Sheridan does is go to Centauri Prime, an "rogue state" in the view of the time and a potential scandal for his parents in and of itself. (That it then leads the President and Vice President of the Interstellar Alliance to risk their lives in a rescue mission only makes things worse.)

Also don't forget JMS's other answer to the question of "loose ends" left from the series, especially with regards to David Sheridan: Namely that we could work out the basic facts from what we see on the show, even without the supplementary details in the books, so there really isn't a mystery:

Sheridan's son - we guess he survived the Drak and their intended keeper?
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This will also be covered in the Centauri Prime trilogy...but if you sit back you can do some of the work to figure out a large part of this. As Londo states, his situation in WWE2 (Sheridan and Delenn captured on Centauri Prime) takes place 18 years after the events in 2260, which would put it at 2278. The urn, given to Sheridan in 2262, is supposed to be given to the heir at the occasion of his/her 16th birthday, by Centauri tradition.
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That would put the urn presentation at...ding!...2278.
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In 2278, Sheridan and Delenn have been drawn to Centauri Prime. We know their son is involved, because Delenn says "David is safe." So they were somehow able to save him, because we know that in 2281, David is alive and well and serving in the Rangers (SiL).
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You can see the shape of the events there...once again the clues are more or less in plain sight...but again, this will be drawn out in the books in more detail.

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No loose ends, no great and mysterious destiny for David Sheridan, no hint of anything further to come. Heck, for all we know he gets tired of Minbar and moves to Mars to work security with his Uncle Mikey after his dad dies.

Regards,

Joe

Now that all the quotes on David have been dug up and discussed, maybe we should just agree to disagree and move on. I think the commentary quote means there's more to David and the quotes about the Centauri trilogy don't preclude that, but you obviously don't. Oh well.

I also think a special project to tie up loose ends from Crusade and Rangers would be empty without the full intended consequences. If we can't have the whole dinner, the crusty potatoes don't mean anything.

I promise to come up with better analogies in the future . . .

Sure, we know Valen forms the Council and the Rangers, lays the groundwork for future Minbari society, drives away the Shadows, hooks back up with Catherine, and probably hangs out with Zathras more than anyone should have to.

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HEY! I'm not THAT annoying...

...am I?



Just kidding. Welcome aboard, Dan.

Well not you Zathras...but Zathras is. Ok..good...now that that is being settled.

You all make me sooooo proud! Now there's a lot of imagination in this thread! You're looking at B5 in new ways. Where are the holes to be filled? What's the story behind the story? We all know this is how JMS tends to think from what he gave us in B5, Crusade, LoTR, and Jeremiah.

We are given the impression that the Drakh plague wasn't going to be the main thrust of Crusade, right? Joe, back me up here, please. JMS was going to presumably go into more about the origins of the technomages, left over shadow tech, and so on. Therefore, it is conceivable that he could adjust some if not a great deal of what was going to be revealed in Crusade and place the original cast right smack dab in the middle!

We know how the Drakh met their end on Centauri Prime, yes, but what was leading up to that throughout the B5 universe? There are several years in there we don't know about really (yes, we know some from the Centauri perspective, but that's only a small view of what all was really going on in the entire IA). We know more or less how the Drakh War ends, as much as we know how the TW ends (maybe a bit more), but nonetheless, why not visualize the full scope and granduer of the Drakh War. We've never seen it...it would make for a visually stunning tale...and I personally would like to see some of what I read in the Centauri books....we only saw it there from Vir's perspective...we could visualize it from Sheridan's or third person which is more in line with the series. Why not? Have any of you read Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card? If you haven't...do...it's one of the best SF novels ever written. If you have then I ask if you've read Ender's Shadow? This is a wonderful example of how the same story told from a different point of view can appear to be a completely different story! I for one would love to see the full Drakh War played out in a huge cinematic trilogy, from start to finish, a la Lord of the Rings! Grand in scale and scope! It is conceivable, folks. Hell for that matter the TW could be a part of it for all we know.

I've always said, never underestimate the Great Maker. If you do, you usually find you've been slapped upside the head or blindsided by several layers of story you never saw coming because he cleverly had you looking at the nat crawling across your shoes.

I'm happy to see the many ideas floating around here. And while there is still disagreement, it's friendly disagreement. I too tend to believe that, while we do not know what exactly happened to David Sheridan after the Keeper incident, he could and probably did go on to play an important role in building the future of the IA. To dismiss the idea completely out of hand is to dismiss what could well be a very good story without even considering the possibilities it might present. Did it happen? We don't know, only JMS knows for sure. Could it happen? Hell yeah! Anything's possible.

As for the idea of The Hand. There, again, is a story element JMS has planned into the B5 universe..but we have no clue what it is...we've only been teased.

For all we know The Hand had ties to the Shadows millenia ago, or the Shadows are the ones that banished them, and now they're back and pissed. Or they were competitors with the Shadows and now they want to seize what they perceive to be their rightful place in the universe. The possibilities are endless.

And it's incredible to see them flowing now, so freely. Most sincerely and humbly I thank you one and all You've renewed my faith.

And after all, "Faith Manages."

I can't wait to see who's right and how right or if, hell, we're all way off the mark entirely.

Keep dreaming, folks, and keep hoping...it makes the universe a bit happier

Ladies and Gentlemen,

After reviewing posts on this board today I have come to the following conclusion:

KoshN has some SERIOUS competition for longest posts. Enter: colonyearth

He even is giving him a run for his money in back-to-back posts!

Keep dreaming, folks, and keep hoping...it makes the universe a bit happier

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The other thread had major boundary value problems. It could only consider the first film and had to leave the characters alive for the sequals. There are very few stories that fit; unless JMS cheats and sets it during say Season 4 for example Return of the Thirdspace Aliens. This thread can consider any time period.

>>I too tend to believe that, while we do not know what exactly happened to David Sheridan after the Keeper incident, he could and probably did go on to play an important role in building the future of the IA. To dismiss the idea completely out of hand is to dismiss what could well be a very good story without even considering the possibilities it might present. Did it happen? We don't know, only JMS knows for sure. Could it happen? Hell yeah! Anything's possible.<<

I just found another piece of this that I think is relevant. In "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars," we have the 100-years-later segment that shows us the three academicians dishing the beginnings of the Interstellar Alliance. The political scientist, Dr. Barbara Tashaki, comments angrily at one point that "It was only the force of history that saved the situation from collapsing of its own weight after so many people died in its first year of operation, and the incident concerning their son w..." At that point, the historian, Dr. Latimeer, interrupts her by saying that they don't want to get into any "associated biographies."

It seems to me that if David went on to play a great and noble role in the beginnings of the IA, history would have remembered him more kindly than "and the incident concerning their son..." History will not likely refer to Dubya as "George Bush's son," as he was (is) a historical figure in his own right. To me, that's a fairly illuminating clue that David is _not_ going to follow in his dad's footsteps.

Oh, and Joe, if you're reading this....I think that Delenn being 140 years old in this episode sheds some light on the subject that's been discussed over on the mod; the question of whether or not Delenn was changed to a 100% human by the Chrysalis transformation. A 140-year old human is uncommon to the point of impossibility, and according to TDoFS, it's even uncommon, in 2362, for a Minbari.

Aisling

In order of what I'd want to see:

1. The Shadow War involving Valen (where he led the Minbari and other races against the darkness.)

2. David Sheridan

3. Telepath War

I've always loved the Minbari. I'm a sucker for those bone-heads! (snicker)

Ladies and Gentlemen,

After reviewing posts on this board today I have come to the following conclusion:

KoshN has some SERIOUS competition for longest posts. Enter: colonyearth

He even is giving him a run for his money in back-to-back posts!

Click to expand...

Speak of the devil....

I'm hardly the winner in the longest post category. For that see JoeD.

Talking about my back-to-back posts, cripes, I combine 'em into one and you talk about my doing the longest posts, I put 'em as separates, and you talk about my back-to-back posts. Man, there is no pleasing some people. :devil: