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Old September 7th 01, 22:17   #11
Natron
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Re: Could the ISA ever produce their own ships with Bio-Armor?

Also, maybe the Vorlons took all the research with them, or destroyed it the same way the Shadows did on Earth after they left. The Warlocks are supposedly based partially on Shadow technology, but that is only what the Shadows didn't destroy. I bet the knowledge is on Vorlon Prime, and the Younger Races will discover it when they are ready....in one million years.

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Old September 7th 01, 22:32   #12
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Re: Could the ISA ever produce their own ships with Bio-Armor?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Natron:
Also, maybe the Vorlons took all the research with them, or destroyed it the same way the Shadows did on Earth after they left.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Not according to the unproduced Crusade scripts... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>The Warlocks are supposedly based partially on Shadow technology<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>See the short story Hidden Agendas by jms...


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Old September 7th 01, 23:44   #13
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Re: Could the ISA ever produce their own ships with Bio-Armor?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>One - that the BS has it is likely, but not certain; it could also be just a nice paint job.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why not give it the look of the Sharlin/Nial/Flyer texture though, bio-armour is easily spotted as a fractal noise.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Two - if they can do it with the BS (which I personally believe), then the question is When? The BS didn't show up until "SiL", that'd be around 2281...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I said in another topic, most military technology available and discovered is not put into production until some 2 decades later. Without the Vorlons help, things would be taken a lot more carefully as not to screw things up. They may be able to replicate the tech easily enough, but they'd want to work out how it works before building all their ships with em. As you could run into problems later down the road. Like the bio-armour getting an infection, you not knowing how it works can't fix it and pretty soon your fleet is worthless.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Three - in the fifth season Sheridan and Delenn Did talk about "running out of WhiteStars"...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know, but the Minbari don't have infinite resources. They can't keep production up all the time, they were meant just to fight the Shadow war after all. That's what they were designed to do, they didn't take into account what would happen afterwards no doubt (most likely asusming the Vorlons wanting the technology back). The whitestars weren't designed for what they're being used for, hence needing a proper destroyer class to replace whitestars. The whitestar is good for it's role, but they needed something new.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Four - the Excalibur has No self-repair system, EM-shield or adaptive armor. The crystalline armor is nice, but we don't know if it is something completely new, or just standard minbari armor, or just an improved version of minbari armor (my opinion - the crystralline armor is the latest in minbari armor technology, they Do have this thing for crystalline stuff...)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Repair system - The technology was dumbed down for EA technology, obviously the repair system couldn't be dumbed down enough to be incorperated into the ship. But it was ALSO a prototype. As I said earlier, technology like that isn't generally put into production until a few decades later. Prototypes being what their name states. It may have been coming later, but were waiting for researchers to finish up.

EM shield - Erm... how do you know this? Matheson states in the well of forever that the Exclaiburs shields block his abilities from going outside the ship. My theory being as ENIDH shows, the by-product of the engines being harvested and re-directed over the ship. Like the field spread out the kinetic energy of Lochley's fighter, it'd do the same to other weapons. Unless it's light, it's gonna have a kinetic effect as a weapon, so it's a good system since the armour would refract light easily.

Adaptive armour - As with the auto-repair, this is JUST a prototype. If they were rushing the project along, they'd leave out the more complicated technologies until ready, then incorperate it into the prototypes for testing.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Now, if the ISA could still make all these nifty vorlon systems in 2262, why "three" and "four" above?
It's more likely they needed some time before they could resume production on vorlon stuff - say, around 2270 or so. Until then - No New WhiteStars.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Easily explained as above.

The bio-armour can obviously be replicated, but the knowledge of how it works seems to be superficial at best. Figuring out how it works in order to produce their own, for their design purposes would take time. Sure they could slap it on and pray it worked but that's not how any military likes to do things in a time of peace.



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Old September 8th 01, 00:01   #14
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Re: Could the ISA ever produce their own ships with Bio-Armor?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cern:
http://www.b5tech.com/

I gotta disagree about the BS having Vorlon Armor. Look at the Organic hull of a Whitestar: http://gamma.nic.fi/~spusa/kuvat/wwc...ars_firing.jpg


Then look at the Crystalline Hull of a Sharlin: http://gamma.nic.fi/~spusa/kuvat/wwc/Minbari_Fleet.jpg

dang it, I've been looking for a pic of a Bluestar for half an hour, and no luck. anyway, the Bluestars hull looks like the Crystalline hull of a Sharlin more than the hull of a WS. So this means either the IA cant replicate Vorlon tech, or they just didnt bother putting it on a ship thats basically a courier and scout.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The colours are at a sweeping glance similar, but upon normal inspection you can easily tell the two apart.

Download the sleeping in light zip -http://www.visi.com/~wildfoto/b5pix.html

Pic number 522_22 is the bluestar. As you can see, they're very different. One is a fractal noise (like camo. on a military field uniform, except very diff. colours.) which is very rabdomized. Compared to light streaks made of of particle like textures (kinda like spray paint) in a very orderly way. With the normal Minbari textures being a light tinged metalic blue compared to the purple and light grey lacking a metalic look. Although it has specular lighting on it's surface, it is that more of a carved stone face than metal.

I would definately call the bluestar's armour organic, although i'm no expert I have experience in the software they used to create the effects for B5. Hard to explain it though.

Oh and it is an assumption that the whitestar armour is even Vorlon, considering it's a huge part of the whitestar and it is stated multiple time the Vorlons only gave minor influence in technology. I think of it as an early try by the Minbari given a little helping hand by the Vorlons, but by the time of the bluestar they have advanced their abilities and made it suited more for them.

------------------
BETH: "Well all I did was go for a really long walk."
JIMMY: "Where'd you go?"
BETH: "I don't know... I mean... all over the city, I guess... and then somehow I ended up standing outside Bill's apartment building and... I wanted to make sure he was... really gone, you know... so I figured out which window was his and then I just started yelling, you know, "BILL, HEY BILL!!!"
JIMMY: "And then what happened?"
BETH: "Well, finally someone opened their window and yelled down, "Shut the hell up you crazy bitch!"
JOE: "That's just what Bill would've done."
BETH: "Yeah, and that just made me think... his spirit lives on in others." - Newsradio
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Old September 8th 01, 02:03   #15
bakana
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Re: Could the ISA ever produce their own ships with Bio-Armor?

Uh, unless those pictures are posted on Official sites, you can't judge anything except the Art Techniques used to create them.

And, even if they Were Official, the techniques used to create them are likely to be very similar since it would be the same FX people doing both.

The only way to settle the argument would be for someone Official (Like JMS) to answer the question.

Like maybe in either the Movie or Series.

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Old September 8th 01, 23:42   #16
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Re: Could the ISA ever produce their own ships with Bio-Armor?

I was under the impression the Whitestar armor was grown on the vessel. The process was done @ Minbar. The Victory Class, (Excalibur,) was also supposed to go through this process, however the 6 months it takes to grow the armor was too long, and the need for the vessel to be placed in service was immediate. This is mentioned in one of the Episodes by the captian in passing.

As for the Warlock class, the Bio Armor of the Shadows was to be adapted to the Warlock, but due to the need for the Armor by Clark ASAP, the Omegas were retrofitted with the Armor and Reactor, (The Archanon, Enigma, and a few others,). The Warlock has the EA version of polycrystaline plating and I think it was 10 to 15 meter thick steel plating, (must be heavy!!!).

Bet we will get to see some Warlocks in the series. Hope the naming will follow the Class name. The one we saw in Crusade was the Necromancer. Think of the great names to follow that class. The Conjurer, The Sorcerer, The Isis (Goddess of Magic), The Merlin, The Sauron(sp?- from the Lord of the Rings). Oops, got of on a rant there.

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Old September 9th 01, 00:29   #17
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Re: Could the ISA ever produce their own ships with Bio-Armor?

A picture of the Blue Star for those who wish to compare (I don't know if it's from a screenshot or self-made 3D model).


A larger picture.

I would expect it to have organic armour... after all, it does follow the design of a White Star which was probably optimized for providing protection when equipped with organic armour. It's also the smallest jump-capable thing built by the youger races by 2281.

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited September 08, 2001).]
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Old September 9th 01, 05:55   #18
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Re: Could the ISA ever produce their own ships with Bio-Armor?

Moving to general.


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