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A Ray of Hope for Trek Fans

ElScorcho

Regular
It's still just a vicious rumour, but Rick Berman may be leaving as Exec Producer of Enterprise. Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

They've bumped it to nine o'clock (Voyager's old time slot), presumably because nobody watches the crap they put on after it. I don't think that will affect the ratings much either way since the quality seems to be on an upswing. There's still the cliche plots, but they're fewer and farther between this year. And depending on how the Xindi arc works out, it could well be deemed Trekworthy by the end of the season. It's definitely the best it's been since the pilot now.

But I still won't be watching the upcoming ep where the doc has a "nude scene" though.
 
Honestly, out of all the shows that were on before or after Voyager or Enterprise, I don't think any them finished 2 seasons.
 
I quit watching Enterprise during the middle of season two. Even though there's a chance Berman may be leaving, I doubt I'll tune back in. I'm just hoping for a DS9 feature film.
 
It's still just a vicious rumour, but Rick Berman may be leaving as Exec Producer of Enterprise. Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

But isn't Braga the worse half of the duo?


They've bumped it to nine o'clock (Voyager's old time slot),

Right across from some tough competition:

American Idol (popular crap)
The Bachelor (popular crap)
The Bachelorette (popular crap)
The West Wing
Angel
King of Queens

presumably because nobody watches the crap they put on after it. I don't think that will affect the ratings much either way since the quality seems to be on an upswing. There's still the cliche plots, but they're fewer and farther between this year. And depending on how the Xindi arc works out, it could well be deemed Trekworthy by the end of the season. It's definitely the best it's been since the pilot now.

With "The Mullets" as a lead-in??? :rolleyes: Guess they're looking for an excuse to kill Enterprise.
 
I stopped watching Voyager after Braga's "Voyager" script where Paris breaks Warp 10, turns into a newt, and has little newtie babies with Janeway. Ugh!

I went back to my old TNG tapes after that...
 
All I can say is I decided I'd give Enterprise another chance, since so many say it has improved somewhat. One week I saw them using that cheesy special effect where you speed the camera up a bit to make action go by a bit quicker. Like in really bad kung-fu movies. :rolleyes:

Not this last Wednesday, but I think the week before, I sat down to watch Enterprise. About 5 minutes or so after the first commercial break, I was in the other room internetting. Not that what I saw was bad. I think I've just lost all interest in the show.

And I'm just starting to collect TNG on DVD. I still have DS9 to finish buying, and eventually B5 too.

That'll keep me for awhile. :D
 
I quit watching Enterprise during the middle of season two.

I quit watching Enterprise around the middle of the pilot. :) I had learned my lesson from Voyager that a pilot that seems just awful for the first hour is not going to get any better by the closing credits. Certainly getting rid of Berman can't hurt, and I suspect that he and Braga bring out the worst in one another, so maybe a separation will even help Braga write stuff that is marginally less crappy. But I doubt I'll come back for another look unless I happen across some truly glowing reviews of future episodes. (And even then I'll keep my thumb poised above the "channel up" button on the remote. :))

Regards,

Joe
 
I stopped watching Voyager after Braga's "Voyager" script where Paris breaks Warp 10, turns into a newt, and has little newtie babies with Janeway. Ugh!

Was that not the most drastically ridiculous, most positively ludicrous, most thoroughly wretched science fiction concept ever on Star Trek? For one thing, I thought Warp 10 was impossible, and even if not, what in the world does that have to do with turning into a newt (and even further, how do you dare pass off "newt-form" as a superior, evolved version of humanity)?

A close second would be the episode where a transporter accident merges Tuvok & Neelix into one hybrid person named Tuvix.


As far as the possibility of firing Rick Berman... Do you think he is mostly to blame for Trek's present snooziness? I don't know how much creative input he has, but I think he's turned Trek into more of a business franchise than a story-telling entertainment franchise.

If I remember correctly, Ira Steven Behr was greatly responsible for making Deep Space Nine better. Granted, he did so by making DS9 more like B5, but still, do you think turning Trek over to him might help? More than likely, it would be better to turn it over to new blood, and let someone else have a crack at it.

Here is my recipe for a better Star Trek series:
1. Keep Trek series off air for at least two years; make people miss it.
2. Meanwhile, tempt fans and experiment with new ideas with a few Trek TV movies.
3. During the break & TV movies, talk with fans online (sound familiar?).
4. Take no less than 12 months planning the new series (digging deep).
5. Focus plans around overall concept, backstory, and characters (with no more than half the cast being Federation/Starfleet type characters).
6. Base series in place and/or time period that makes it very different.
7. Establish story-telling "commandments," such as prohibiting stories about holodeck oddities, transporter mishaps, spacial anomolies, phaser harmonics, temporal phasing, 24-hour DNA mutations, or deflector dish miracles.
8. Worry about sets, costumes, make-up, and FX last (Paramount will pay for it all no matter what), and agree not to change hair-styles or costumes mid-stream unless they make sense or serve the story.
9. Form a talented & trustworthy writing staff, and gradually narrow down the staff until only your best writer(s) is/are writing every episode of the series by the middle season (sound familiar again?).
10. Hire a freakin' script supervisor who knows what the #@!! they're doing and are determined not to give Phil Farrand enough material to write another Nitpickers' Guide book.
11. Make every season have a self-contained "theme" (like B5 or Buffy:tVS), and if you do any summer cliffhangers, make sure the resolution is twice as awesome as the setup and plan out Part 2 *before* summer hiatus.
12. Do not stray from the "goal" of the series (unless the producers & writers *unanimously* agree that a newfound direction is *drastically* better--and plausible in respect to the original direction).
13. In the process of steps 1 thru 12, especially the last few, make fans laugh, cry, ponder, gasp, and generally soil their underwear (in a good way).

Short of turning the whole thing over to JMS or Joss Whedon, or the people who run Alias or E.R., those 13 steps sound possible for Paramount to pull off, don't they?

Yeah, I didn't think so.
 
A close second would be the episode where a transporter accident merges Tuvok & Neelix into one hybrid person named Tuvix.

Could have been worse. I hear that in the first draft it merged them into a sneaker called NuVok, but the product placement deal with Nike fell through at the last minute. :)

And as dumb and overwrought as the newt business was, it is hard to top TOS's "Spock's Brain" when it comes to sheer stupidity. All things considered it is amazing how few "substandard" episodes B5 has had. Out of 110 I doubt even the most critical fan could assemble a list of more than two or three shows per year that were "bad" - and almost all of them had several redeeming features that still make them worth watching - albeit with one finger on the "fast forward" button. (In fact, I wrote a quite spirited defense of "Grail" of all things over at the WB board earlier today. Here's a link for anyone interested. The thread started with a question about sports references in B5, which led to a mention of "TKO", which - inevitably - led to a discussion of "bad" B5 episodes and somebody challenging me to find some redeeming feature in "Grail" after I'd pointed out worthwile aspects of "TKO", "Infection" and "Grey 17")

Anyway, B5 has to have the best "signal to noise" ratio of any major SF show that ran for 5 seasons or more.

Regards,

Joe
 
I stopped watching Voyager after Braga's "Voyager" script where Paris breaks Warp 10, turns into a newt, and has little newtie babies with Janeway. Ugh!

I went back to my old TNG tapes after that...

I thought that was about the strangest thing I had seen in a TV series... Paris and Janeway devolving into... I thought they looked more like salamanders than newts, anyway, and then doing the wild thing, and having babies! I think my jaw hung slack in amazement during most of that EP. I was too astounded to hate it, but you're right, they shouldn't have gone past warp ten, that was wrong.

Ninja_Squirrel, I agree with your dictums for a better Trek, especailly #7.

Actually, I think that Enterprise hasn't been bad lately, with the Xindi arc, and the Andorrans. No B5, to be sure, but watchable, and there just aren't any good scifi series in first run right now, so, I'll keep on watching. They have thrown out a lot of interesting plot points, so I am hoping that they DO something with them.
 
Actually, I think that Enterprise hasn't been bad lately, with the Xindi arc, and the Andorrans.

So, what is the Xindi arc all about? I know the Xindi are involved in the temporal cold war, and that they carved up Florida, Cuba, and South America as a pre-emptive strike because they thought Earth would wipe them out in a possible future. And, I know that they made a big deal about Enterprise going into some kind of Expanse that was supposed to be psychadelic and treacherous. And, I know that the Xindi is a race with about 5 or 6 seperate species (humanoid, sloth, insectoid, reptillian, and aquatic, if I remember correctly).

However, other than that, the episodes I've skimmed thru (stopping on it for a minute or two while flipping channels), have looked pretty much the same as their previous material. In the middle of this really hyped-up Expanse arc, wasn't there yet another stand-alone episode with a 24-hour DNA transformation plot? And the only sign I've seen that the Expanse is a weird area space is all the luggage in a cargo bay flipping around from one wall to another without it having anything to do with the grav plating in the floor (wwhhaaaa??).

So, what about the Andorians? I saw a few minutes of an Andorian episode the other day. Do the Andorians also have something to do with the Xindi/Expanse arc, or were they in for just a stand-alone guest shot?

I think the problem with Trek is that they no longer dig in deep (and possibly never went deep enough even during the glory days of TNG & DS9). They make a big deal about releasing photos to the press of T'Pol's new uniform and longer hairstyle, and they think everyone's going to tune in. They have a few commercials hyping up the great Expanse, but there doesn't seem to be much clue about what the Expanse really is.


Here's another thing that gets me. It seemed like Voyager honked off a whole quandrant and was in a battle almost every other week, and despite being alone and away from Federation assistance, they keep on truckin' and have plenty of energy leftover for Tom Paris to have holodeck adventures and replicate a television set. Enterprise is also alone and far more primitive a ship than Voyager was, and despite being in the dreaded Expanse and also facing frequent battles, they also keep truckin' without much problem. If these ships and these crews are really that self-sufficient, why does Starfleet even bother with space stations and starbases in the first place, and why aren't there more non-Starfleet ships out there. I know that money works differently in the future, but you'd think someone somewhere on Earth would have the right resources and connections to have freelance starships with civilian crews. The closest we've seen to that are a few rogues (like Okana in an episode of TNG) or freighter captains (like Cassidy Yates in DS9). Where are the corporate dudes with their own star-yachts? In B5, even G'Kar was able to get his own ship for him and Lyta.


Sorry, got off on a tangent. Since the thread is about Rick Berman, I'm still curious if he is mostly or completely to blame for Trek's problems. I can't help but wonder, is he running the show, or is he just running the business. The problem seems to be that there's not much distinction any more. Enterprise may be getting bad ratings, a time slot switch, and mad vibes about a possible cancellation, but I bet the official fan club is still able to get Paramount money for selling Enterprise TV shirts, coffee mugs, model kits, action figures, sleeve patches, toy phasers, toy communicators, etc. Maybe I'm wrong; perhaps these things aren't selling well now, and maybe that's why Berman's head is near/on the chopping block.
 
If Enterprise has improved enough to be watchable, I should probably tape it. If nothing else, it would give me something to grade papers to. I just try to avoid grading after about the time it starts (7pm here). But I could tape it and when grading later in the week pop that tape in.

I'll have some catching up to do since I basically missed all of last season except for one or two eps and I've missed all of this season except for 10 minutes or so here or there.

Oh, and don't even mention that Voyager Newt episode again. :rolleyes: Even "Spock's Brain" was a smidge better than that one was.

A close second would be the episode where a transporter accident merges Tuvok & Neelix into one hybrid person named Tuvix.

Good god! :eek:

Somehow I got lucky and missed that episode. :rolleyes:

Man, I shudder just thinking about it, though. :(
 
I got a bit miffed with Voyager when they decided they couldn't come up with any good plotlines for Kes and got rid of her. I've watched plenty of episodes of Voyager after Kes left, and some of them were pretty good, but a large quantity of them were just bland. I watched much of the first season of Enterprise, but I sadly got bored with it and found it not worth tuning into UPN to watch.

Unlike a lot of people, I actually enjoyed Nemesis especially since it finally had a full-on space battle. While I enjoyed the plots of Insurrection and Generations, their space battles were ludicrously lame, and the extreme shortness of the battle against the Borg cube in First Contact is a major gripe I have with that movie.

I guess I've just been spoiled with Babylon 5 and Farscape. Star Trek just isn't as impactful as those two are to me now.
 
Since the thread is about Rick Berman, I'm still curious if he is mostly or completely to blame for Trek's problems. I can't help but wonder, is he running the show, or is he just running the business. The problem seems to be that there's not much distinction any more.

Berman inherited control over what had been the greatest franchise in American SF TV history, drove his only competition off the reservation entirely and he's sleeping with Jeri Ryan. Clearly the man sold his soul to the Devil years ago, probably in a package deal with John Stamos, and the bill is now coming due. :)

Regards,

Joe
 
Berman inherited control over what had been the greatest franchise in American SF TV history, drove his only competition off the reservation entirely and he's sleeping with Jeri Ryan.

I believe that's Brannon Braga who's hooked up with Jeri Ryan.
 
I believe that's Brannon Braga who's hooked up with Jeri Ryan.

Could be, but my version is funnier. :) Can't let the facts get in the way of a good joke, can we?

(OK, they sold their souls together as part of a package deal. Berman got the Trek franchise, Braga got Ryan, Stamos got Rebecca, but he had to do those stupid phone commercials. Better? ;) )

Regards,

Joe
 
I am not sure that the departure of Berman will be the great boon that some Trek fans think it will be. I could be wrong, but in my opinion, Trek has been suffering for some time. While it easy to lay all the blame at his door, I believe it has taken a lot of people to sink this ship. Perhaps if they had gotten a few different, talented people with highly divergent ideas to run the various spin offs it would have worked. In my not so humble opinion, Trek has been gone since DS9 finished its run. They need to get out of the mindset that a few cosmetic changes makes a revolution in television entertainment. This is just my two cents, and in the end, it does not amount to a hill of beans. :D

Frizzell
 
I didn't even know one of them had Ryan. Man, that is the life.

Berman was part of the success of TNG and DS9, it's just that his direction was balanced with the likes of Gene and Behr, et al. And Braga wrote some nice TNG eps, too.

If Berman runs away because one series ain't doing so hot, he's kind of a pussy, but I'm sure he's wealthy enough, so he doesn't give a shit.

I like to watch the Andorian eps of Enterprise because Wayoon is in them and he rocks.
 
I like to watch the Andorian eps of Enterprise because Wayoon is in them and he rocks.

I agree! I love Jeffrey Combs; he brings so much to his characters: Harriman Gray in B5, Weyoun and Brunt in DS9, Penk in the "Tsunkatse" Voyager episode...

I loved it when he'd walk into Quark's and say, "Brunt!...F!C!A!" :D
 

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