My take on B5

I am unfortunately from Israel and so anything that can't be shipped here is irrelevant. i did however check the links you gave me and there are some nice finds in there, now I can only hope they ship to Israel as these are private buyers and those usually tend not to like it.

I already ordered #1&2 from Amazon and now all that remains to be seen is how cheap I can get #3.

It's funny but I read on Peter David's website why some of the books are so rare, it's such a moronic reason and it really annoyed the hell out of me, because of this bureaucratic BS I now have to spin circles to find these books and how many missed them because of this...uselessness?

hmmm I can get #3 for 30$ but the description goes like this : "Book Condition: Near Fine (NF). Published by Del Rey. This is 1st edition November 2000. 266 pages. Smooth spine, seemingly unread copy. Book is square, flat and tight with cream pages. Light wear to edges and corners. Very High Cover gloss. Clean copy with no writing, no tape, no stickers and no stamps."

Is there a problem with it being the 1st edition from November 2000 with 266 pages?

Don't skip the Psi Corps trilogy.

Click to expand...

Here, here. For my money, the only B5 books that are consistently excellent. The others have their good parts and are well worth reading but also have some dull or silly or frustrating bits. Psi-Corps, however, just rocks straight through. Full disclosure: Bester and the Psi-Corps is my 2nd favorite chunk of B5-dom, after the Narn/Centauri thing.


A quick note about the copyright stuff- my instincts generally lie with Jan on this one.
However, the Alias thread I started made me think- if I borrow DVDs from the public library, I have the technology to copy the content. This is illegal. So dig this: if I borrow the DVD, watch it, return: legal. If I borrow it, copy it, watch it, delete it- illegal. If I borrow it, copy it, watch it once in my life, never delete it- also illegal. More illegal? Yet the end result in all 3 cases: I have watched that copy of the movie once, without paying for it (except through tax dollars since I got it from the library, though I borrowed it from a friend the same legal rules apply).

So while Jan is correct that some people justify illegal behavior by referring to "gray areas," there are, in fact, also gray areas (I think mostly due to the fact that the law has not caught up to technology). So the existence of gray areas is a gray area! I win.

Mercury said:

B5_Obsessed said:

I donated all of mine to the Seminole County Public Library System.

Click to expand...

Donate them to me! I am the needy in this particular case

Click to expand...

That was almost ten years ago.

GKarsEye said:

Don't skip the Psi Corps trilogy.

Click to expand...

Here, here. For my money, the only B5 books that are consistently excellent.

...some people justify illegal behavior by referring to "gray areas," there are, in fact, also gray areas (I think mostly due to the fact that the law has not caught up to technology). So the existence of gray areas is a gray area! I win.

Click to expand...

I really liked the first Psi Corps book in that it involved nothing but completely original characters in a time frame very different from Babylon 5.

It's not even so much technology in the example I used. If I can go to a library and find the Amazing Stories magazine with "Space, Time and the Incurable Romantic", I can sit down and read it. But if Mercury finds it in his library and faxes me the two pages from Israel (or scans and emails them), my reading it now makes me morally corrupt. I don't see the harm done to the author either way on this one.

Mercury said:

I am unfortunately from Israel and so anything that can't be shipped here is irrelevant. i did however check the links you gave me and there are some nice finds in there, now I can only hope they ship to Israel as these are private buyers and those usually tend not to like it.

I already ordered #1&2 from Amazon and now all that remains to be seen is how cheap I can get #3.

Click to expand...

OK, you must be talking about the Centauri trilogy ("Legions of Fire") there.

Mercury said:

It's funny but I read on Peter David's website why some of the books are so rare, it's such a moronic reason and it really annoyed the hell out of me, because of this bureaucratic BS I now have to spin circles to find these books and how many missed them because of this...uselessness?

Click to expand...

Well, spill it! What was the reason that Legions of Fire Book 3 and The Passing of the Techno-mages Book 2 are so rare? When did he say it? What date?

KoshN said:

Mercury said:

I am unfortunately from Israel and so anything that can't be shipped here is irrelevant. i did however check the links you gave me and there are some nice finds in there, now I can only hope they ship to Israel as these are private buyers and those usually tend not to like it.

I already ordered #1&2 from Amazon and now all that remains to be seen is how cheap I can get #3.

Click to expand...

OK, you must be talking about the Centauri trilogy ("Legions of Fire") there.

Mercury said:

It's funny but I read on Peter David's website why some of the books are so rare, it's such a moronic reason and it really annoyed the hell out of me, because of this bureaucratic BS I now have to spin circles to find these books and how many missed them because of this...uselessness?

Click to expand...

Well, spill it! What was the reason that Legions of Fire Book 3 and The Passing of the Techno-mages Book 2 are so rare? When did he say it? What date?

Click to expand...

I haven't read what Mercury read, but, from what I recall, they short printed some of the books, so they weren't in matched sets.

I'm actually at work right now and I can't seem to find the link but I have it at home, will deliver as soon as I get there. basically it's something like : In a trilogy the publisher order say 50,000 copies (fictitious number) of the first book. Then they order 50% of that for the second, and 50% of that for the third. Apparently that's how trilogy sales usually go with the first book out selling the sequels by 200% and same with 2nd to 3rd.

Problem was that with these 2 trilogies the popularity kept growing as time went on and that caused over demand on books that were barely available, and by the time the publisher found out about it they couldn't print any more because they didn't have the rights any more, which is the part that pisses me off. I fail to see the problem with purchasing the rights again if there's demand, but this didn't happen which led to the situation today.

I don't know who holds the rights, be it Peter David or anyone else, but I doubt they'd say no if DelRey said "hey, we wanna print out another 10,000 copies of your book." They could make money while the fans could get the book for much cheaper, it's a win win situation for god's sake. Then again, that's exactly how legends are born

Mercury said:

hmmm I can get #3 for 30$ but the description goes like this : "Book Condition: Near Fine (NF). Published by Del Rey. This is 1st edition November 2000. 266 pages. Smooth spine, seemingly unread copy. Book is square, flat and tight with cream pages. Light wear to edges and corners. Very High Cover gloss. Clean copy with no writing, no tape, no stickers and no stamps."

Is there a problem with it being the 1st edition from November 2000 with 266 pages?

Click to expand...

No, no problem with it. The seller is just giving you more information than you really need. That's the paperback edition that I have. I'm looking at mine right now, and as far as I know, there was only one printing of the paperback. $30 isn't bad, but I've never sold any of mine for more than Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price ($6.50, which is what I paid.) when selling to a fellow B5er, plus shipping. Hey, I'm not going to lose money.

The book is also included in the hardcover omnibus edition (the edition that contains all three novels of a trilogy), that was only available through the Science Fiction Book Club. I have both the Centauri and Technomage hardcover omnibus editions, but I got mine from Jan by winning her eBay auctions. IIRC, I paid $35 for Technomage and $65 for Centauri, but that was several years ago.

Sindatur said:

I haven't read what Mercury read, but, from what I recall, they short printed some of the books, so they weren't in matched sets.

Click to expand...

WHY??? Is Del Rey just evil? What's wrong with matched sets, the liklihood that everybody will be able to buy a complete trilogy? What's wrong with that? :brickwall:

Mercury said:

I'm actually at work right now and I can't seem to find the link but I have it at home, will deliver as soon as I get there. basically it's something like : In a trilogy the publisher order say 50,000 copies (fictitious number) of the first book. Then they order 50% of that for the second, and 50% of that for the third. Apparently that's how trilogy sales usually go with the first book out selling the sequels by 200% and same with 2nd to 3rd.

Problem was that with these 2 trilogies the popularity kept growing as time went on and that caused over demand on books that were barely available, and by the time the publisher found out about it they couldn't print any more because they didn't have the rights any more, which is the part that pisses me off. I fail to see the problem with purchasing the rights again if there's demand, but this didn't happen which led to the situation today.

Click to expand...

So, they were banking on failure (decreasing demand as the books rolled out), and success threw them a curve? So, adjust. Buy the rights again and have a second printing! It is their business to sell books isn't it? It's hard to imagine more than expected demand, and success being a problem. :wtf: Idiots!!!

Mercury said:

I don't know who holds the rights, be it Peter David or anyone else, but I doubt they'd say no if DelRey said "hey, we wanna print out another 10,000 copies of your book." They could make money while the fans could get the book for much cheaper, it's a win win situation for god's sake. Then again, that's exactly how legends are born

Click to expand...

You know, that doesn't explain how it's Book 2 of the Technomage trilogy that's rare. Book 3 of that trilogy is easy to find.

KoshN said:

Mercury said:

I don't know who holds the rights, be it Peter David or anyone else, but I doubt they'd say no if DelRey said "hey, we wanna print out another 10,000 copies of your book." They could make money while the fans could get the book for much cheaper, it's a win win situation for god's sake. Then again, that's exactly how legends are born

Click to expand...

You know, that doesn't explain how it's Book 2 of the Technomage trilogy that's rare. Book 3 of that trilogy is easy to find.

Click to expand...

Maybe when Book 2 became unavailable people gave up? You'd still think Book 3 would've caught up by now, but, maybe not? Or maybe they did increase the run for Book 3?

Sindatur said:

KoshN said:

Mercury said:

I don't know who holds the rights, be it Peter David or anyone else, but I doubt they'd say no if DelRey said "hey, we wanna print out another 10,000 copies of your book." They could make money while the fans could get the book for much cheaper, it's a win win situation for god's sake. Then again, that's exactly how legends are born

Click to expand...

You know, that doesn't explain how it's Book 2 of the Technomage trilogy that's rare. Book 3 of that trilogy is easy to find.

Click to expand...

Maybe when Book 2 became unavailable people gave up? You'd still think Book 3 would've caught up by now, but, maybe not? Or maybe they did increase the run for Book 3?

Click to expand...

I don't know but the only explanation that comes to mind is that maybe they took 3 back to the printers when they realized there is a lot of demand but it was too late for 2 as they didn't have the rights for it anymore. I may be talking rubbish here though :/

Mercury said:

Sindatur said:

KoshN said:

You know, that doesn't explain how it's Book 2 of the Technomage trilogy that's rare. Book 3 of that trilogy is easy to find.

Click to expand...

Maybe when Book 2 became unavailable people gave up? You'd still think Book 3 would've caught up by now, but, maybe not? Or maybe they did increase the run for Book 3?

Click to expand...

I don't know but the only explanation that comes to mind is that maybe they took 3 back to the printers when they realized there is a lot of demand but it was too late for 2 as they didn't have the rights for it anymore. I may be talking rubbish here though :/

Click to expand...

It definitely checks with what I had read previously, though I had forgotten the reason is because of epxected fall of in readership the further you get into a series, thanks for that reminder

Wow, learning all this really makes me glad I was able to get all the books years ago. Small SciFi bookstores may be your best bet now. They may have copies laying around gathering dust. That's where I found my copy of To Dream in the City of Sorrows.

For pure B5 continuation the Centauri and the Psicorp Trilogies are great. But I always thought the Technomage Trilogy could be turned into an awesome movie and not have to relate back to B5 in any way. Of course we'd get "lucky" and get Uwe Boll directing which would turn it into the worst movie ever made.

Sorry to have started this whole copyright debate. I think this is how it ultimitely runs down. Jan is right that most if not all what you guys mention is either illegal or exempted under current laws. Everyone else including me are basically making points that the laws should be updated to what we think makes more sense and is more fair in our minds. It was a neat discussion, learning what each person thinks is fair.

And as promised, the link to Peter David's explanation of the shortage in books click

But it's actually the second one...

My personal (and snarky) theory? Book Three was just way too revisionist, and people like me put their copies up on the market. Heck, I just sold the whole trilogy.

KoshFan said:

But it's actually the second one...

My personal (and snarky) theory? Book Three was just way too revisionist, and people like me put their copies up on the market. Heck, I just sold the whole trilogy.

Click to expand...

I just don't understand those people. I could never part with my only copies.

And, as I recall, I sold my books to you.

KoshFan said:

But it's actually the second one...

My personal (and snarky) theory? Book Three was just way too revisionist, and people like me put their copies up on the market. Heck, I just sold the whole trilogy.

Click to expand...

Is the techno mage trilogy no good? I was actually counting on that to be great as these are characters you can do a lot with...