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Lost Season 3 Spoiler Thread

I thought it noble of Charlie to lock himself INSIDE...so no one could stop him...so Claire and the baby would be rescued. Desmond told him that it wouldn't happen if he didn't die. I think, up until the point he saw the explosive in that man's hand outside the window, it wasn't clear that it was time.

And I don't know about you, but I :eek: jumped out of my skin when Locke showed up! :DHe looks pretty good for a dead guy!
 
I think the flash forward is the beginning of no longer showing flashbacks, since the pasts are pretty well played out, and everyone will want to know what became of everyone's lives when the show ends. The flashforward is just an epilogue being spliced in between the island scenes, since the masses wouldn't want to watch an entirely different show that it would become if there was no island mysteries. Jack didn't really experience the flashforward, we were just shown what his life will become (or at least where his life is currently headed). Notice how Desmond looks all trance-y when he gets a flash of the future, Jack didn't.

I have a sinking feeling that it's not a good idea for Claire and Aaron to get on that chopper, and that Charlie gave up his life for a mistake. The boat isn't Penny's so I think her dad overheard her plans for finding Desmond, and had Dharma send the boat impersonating Penny's team. Dharma is back for their revenge, and Jack's tattoos will bring the "Others" and the Fusies together into one tribe to fight the greater evil of Dharma's revenge. Ben's been trying to tell us they're the good guys, and we wouldn't listen because of his methods, but, obviously Dharma did something to the natives or to the island, since Ben said Dharma was looking for Utopia, but, couldn't even live harmoniously with the natives, and he purged them.
 
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I thought it noble of Charlie to lock himself INSIDE...so no one could stop him...so Claire and the baby would be rescued.

Yea but that is the point. Charlie knew about Naomi and the boat she had waiting that was supposed to rescue Claire...and he knew that Naomi's boat was Penny's boat. The second he heard from Penny that the boat wasn't hers and that she had no idea what it was, Charlie knew that Claire might get rescued, but maybe not in a good way --- or that something worse could happen.

The smart thing to do would to have been to take the extra 2 seconds to get OUTSIDE the room and lock it, so he could warn the others --- instead he locked himself in, then remembered to write a note on his hand. As soon as he saw the info on the boat though, he should have known that he wouldn't necessarily be giving his life to save Claire.



Regarding the flash-forward...I'm still not sure what to make of it. Was it something that will REALLY happen? Was it a "possible future"? Seems like they are close to getting off the island to a degree so it seems like it is a for-certain future...but at the same time, something could happen in early S4 to change the events of the flash-forward.

Then again, the flash-backs were simply ways to show the viewer what happened in the past...they weren't visions. That might mean the flash forward is the same thing...showing the viewer what WILL happen later, and then trying to show things in between.
 
Regarding Charlie, I also wondered if he was trying to relieve Desmond of the burden of having to follow him around to save his life, when it was a pointless cause anyways .. and that he just accepted to let it happen.

If this is true though, Charlie is a huge dork (which he is in any case) .. maybe do that noble dying thing AFTER you've saved Claire and Aaron??
 
OK so here is a question for the masses:

Does anyone think that "Aliens" are involved...at least in some small way...with the island?

I realize there is a ton of "belief and faith" elements which point to more of a spiritual or supernatural explanations, but there doesn't have to be ONE answer as to all the things at play in the island, in fact there probably isn't. So does anyone think aliens might be a small factor somehow? Here is what made me wonder:

1) While there is certainly some strange phenomena on the island that could be weird mother-nature type stuff, you can't deny that there is some flat out TECHNOLOGIES on the island that shouldn't be there. TECHNOLOGIES that are MADE by "someone" that are a bit beyond what humans could make today.

* that Sonic Fence
* old smokey, the security program thingy

2) Four-toed statue. WTF? Could have been another race of humans maybe? Like an Atlantis thing...but still, there is something odd about that statue.

3) Juliette's line in the finale, when asked why they had them move those rocks. "To build a runway" "for who?" "Aliens". Yes, she said it jest, and as a joke and might be a red herring, but mainly because of the reasons in #1, it still makes me think there might be something at play there.

So does anyone else think this? Or do you think that the writers would never do such a thing because ANY alien involvement at all in the islands history would be considered "cheating" and a weak plotline for mainstream TV?
 
It did cross my mind that Juliet's quip might have actually had a basis in fact. One of the absolute classic German-language plays of the last half a decade is a Swiss play called Biedermann und die Brandstifter, centers around a guy living in a town in which arsonists have been torching house after house. The guy takes in two homeless guys that ask for a roof over their head. When the guy asks them if they know anything about the arsonists, they reply by repeatedly claiming that they are the arsonists, and that they're in his house to torch it.

He thinks that they've got to be kidding him, as it's just too daft. Of course, they ARE the arsonists - as the truth just seemed so bizarre that noone would buy it, they decided that it was a better cover than any lie could have been.

I wonder if Juliet is pulling a Biedermann und die Brandstifter on us.
 
Does anyone think that "Aliens" are involved...at least in some small way...with the island?

So does anyone else think this? Or do you think that the writers would never do such a thing because ANY alien involvement at all in the islands history would be considered "cheating" and a weak plotline for mainstream TV?

I don't think "cheating" or the needs of mainstream TV have anything to do with it (perhaps you've heard of The X-Files, Invasion, Surface, The Invaders? :))

The producers have obviously been very cagey about exactly what is going on with the island, but at the same time they have been repeatedly, explicitly and adamantly clear about what isn't involved:

1. There is nothing supernatural about these events, everything has a rational scientific or at least science fiction explanation. (Which will be given in the course of the series.)

2. They are not dead, the island is not Purgatory.

3. There are no aliens involved.

Juliet's comment, like Naomi's "you're all dead" and the various references to Hell or Purgatory, is just the writers having fun with the audience. They know perfectly well what theories people are putting out there on the internet, and they put them in the character's mouths as a way of winking at the folks who discuss the show on-line.

The Atlantis thing certainly fits. There is evidence of an ancient civilization. Time travel and various oddities with the space-time continuum is also a definite possibility. But we don't know how it all fits. But certainly the Black Rock is in awfully good shape for a wooden ship that has been sitting in a hot jungle for a couple of hundred years. :)

I think people (here and especially on the HTF) are jumping to way too many conclusions about what that little snippet of the future we saw means for both the characters and the mechanics of the show.

It could merely be a possible future, one that Jack finds a way to avert. (Presumably with the help of Desmond. I'm not sure if Desmond can actually travel through time, but it is possible that he could sent himself a message, a vision if you will, in the past. I don't know if was just my local cable company or a problem with the ABC feed, but from about the time Desmond sees Charlie's warning until the end of the Island segment, the video had a slightly choppy feel to it. Could have been digital compression, could have been a visual cue that what we were seeing wasn't 100% "real".

I like the Varn/Jacob idea.

Let's consider the following:

The Island is a source of great power, a natural generator of electromagnetic energy, and a temporal anomaly, akin to the rift in sector 14. At one point it was the home to an ancient civilization. These ancient either died out, or transformed, along the lines of the alien race in River of Souls. All or most of them might have wiped themselves out messing with the Island's power - or they may have fought a war to control it and offed themselves.

The Island has some kind of sentient guardian. This could be an advanced machine, a human/machine hybrid, the energy forms of the original inhabitants, or just one of them, who either became trapped their or stayed behind deliberately. This could be Jacob.

As civilizations outside the Island arose, the Island "hid" itself to protect its secrets and the immense power that the primitives around it would not be able to handle. Ships that got too close were drawn in and sunk, and the survivors not permitted to leave.

The Island may have some interest in repopulating itself, but only with the "right" kind of people. Some survivors may have been kept young and healthy for long stretches if they were found worthy. But it won't let just anybody reproduce. Or maybe the fatal miscarriages are an accidental side-effect of something on the Island itself. Maybe that's what wiped out the original inhabitants. Invisible Jacob could be the result of some experiment to fix that problem - as could the seemingly immortal Richard. In the meantime, the core permanent population has been supplemented by whatever children reach the island, who are captured and raised by them.

It may be that only certain people can sense the Island's controlling intelligence, and that communicating even with them is difficult. Thus the Island can't just give orders directly, it depends on "prophets" like Ben.

The problem is that Ben is a paranoid sociopath, a very imperfect vessel. I think Jacob told him to "take care" of the Dharma people because they had proven a disappointment or because they were learning too much - by which he probably meant, "capture them" - and Ben translated that into an order for mass-murder to take revenge on all the people who had slighted him.

If the breeding problem was never solved, it may be that the Island has been using its agent and the mechanisms (and money) of the Dharma Initiative to try to get 20th/21st century "normal" civilization to solve it for them. Hence Juliet.

Because the Dharma people were all peace and love and "let's help mankind", the Island may have permitted their colony to establish itself, then used events like "the incident" to isolate them on the island to repopulate the place. As noted above it is an open question whether Ben's actual orders were to capture the Dharma sites once and for all or to massacre the population, but I'm inclined to think it was the former.

I think "The Others" are the "good guys" in the sense that they've been working to protect the Island's secrets from falling into the wrong hands - to keeps its immense power away from a human race not yet prepared to use it. Their mission is good. But their methods suck and their secrecy, especially under the guidance of Crazy Ben, has caused nearly all of their problems and everybody else's. Ben thinks he needs to control the information to maintain his power. He never explains anything fully and that's probably going to get him killed. That's why Locke is such a threat to him. Unlike Ben, Locke is a natural leader, and mostly an honest man. If he can talk to Jacob, they don't need Ben. And if Locke tells the Others that Ben has been manipulating Jacob's orders for his own ends, they'll probably kill him. (We can only hope. :))

Either some other influence or the Island itself has been manipulating events in order to bring a certain planeful of people to the Island. That's what Ben had them building the landing strip for. But somebody got their wires crossed, or the space-time anomaly affects even the Island's influence when it tries to operate at a distance (or Ben was deliberately dragging his feet) because the runway clearly wasn't ready when Oceanic 815 appeared overhead. (Presumably drawn off course deliberately and already heading for a crash.) But thanks to Desmond's error, the plane didn't crash miles away at sea and take everyone to the bottom of the ocean with it. It broke up above the island and some people survived the wreck.

Some or all of the people on that plane had been hand-picked by somebody, their lives manipulated to put them on that flight. And most shared the characteristic of having nothing to really to go home to. It may be that the Island intends the Oceanic survivors to be the founders of its new civilization, and its defenders against the outside world. It may be that what everybody has assumed to be the point of the show - getting the castaways rescued and sent home, which would necessarily have to be stalled to the last episode - isn't it at all. It may be about all these people learning that their destiny is to stay on the island and make sure that they are never rescued. :)

Regards,

Joe
 
I saved the last 4 episodes until the other day. And all I can say is wow, this has really restored my faith in the show. I had the same feelings watching these as I did the very first season.

It was good to see Walt appear to Locke and tell him to get up and that he has a job to do. This finale was soo good that I had completely forgotten about Locke considering that in other episodes I'm always waiting for the Locke scenes.

Am I the only one that kind of cheered when Jack finally starting kicking the shit out of Ben? All the crap that man had put them all through and finally somebody gave him a little smack down. I dont think Ben expected Jack to call his bluff and certainly not attack him. The look on Ben's face when Jack charged at him...priceless.

And poor Hurley. He was constantly told "no" by the other groups so he had to take matters into his own hands. It was kind of funny to see that old VW bus come roaring out the jungle.

And the matter with Charlie, I know others have said that he should have ran outside the room and then closed the hatch door, but I think in Charlie's mind he was already prepared to die. Desmond had set him up for this after all with his talk of Charlie always dying in his visions. And Charlie would do anything for Claire, even if that meant killing himself. I believe Desmond told him that his death meant their rescue.

I can't wait for next season. Hopefully it's as good as these last few episodes were.
 
I'm up to speed now. I think Desmond merely let his guard down, thats all. He didn't know what caused the room to flood from his flash vision... he just saw Charlie drowning... and when the obvious danger had passed, he assumed he had saved Charlie's neck again, so wasn't prepared for mikhail's little swifty.

A lot of people have said Charlie could have run through the door before shutting it. I don't think that would have been possible. Desmond by that point had heard Penny was on the radio and had one thing on his mind - getting to talk to her... he did not know Mikhail was outside with a grenade. Charlie would not be strong enough to force Desmond back through the door in time to avoid both of them being drowned. So he kept him out the only way he knew how.

Although having said that... there surely would have been enough time for them to take a deep breath before both swimming to the surface via the moon pool if the compartment hadn't been sealed and the whole hatch had started to flood instead.
 
I'm finally caught up with Lost. I had the finale spoilt slightly for me as my friend told me they were doing "flash-forwards" now. I assumed he meant Desmond so didn't think anything of it. But as soon as I saw Jack with a beard, it clicked into place.

I thought the finale was excellent. Though I must confess, I can't think of a single episode of Lost that I haven't liked. I hate being a fanboy, but it looks like I am.:)

Having said that, I thought the whole thing with Charlie was a bit stupid. It didn't make either logical sense, or if he wasn't thinking logically, survival sense. If he thought about it logically, he would have known they had plenty of time to get out before they drowned. If his survival instincts had taken over he would have run out of the room and closed the door from the other side.

Apart from that it was excellent. Locke is ansolutley desperate NOT to get off the island. Either that or he knows something about Naomi and her people. I think that Locke was in the coffin that Jack saw. Though as that is my first guess, I'm bound to be wrong.:)

If the rest of the world thinks that all everbody on the plane died, then Michael and Walt can't have been found yet. I don't think enough time has passed for them to be found. But I wonder if they are dead

I read the posts in this thread yesterday, but can't remember if anybody had mentioned it. When Locke and Ben went to see Jacob, did anyone notice someone sitting in the chair just after Ben gets pushed away? I noticed it first time through, which I am pretty smug about as my eyesight is very poor. Here is a link to the frames where you see him. Including a video showing you whereabouts in the scene the frames are. Some of the wild speculation is quite funny.:D
 
Charlie didn't want to survive, that's the whole point. He wanted to sacrifice himself because Desmond told him when he died in his vision, Claire and Aaron were rescued in a helicopter. Many viewers even believe if Desmond hadn't saved Charlie from the arrow in the throat, that Naomi would've been Penny (I personally don't see how, since naomi was already in the trees, but, why shouldn't Charlie put the same stock in Desmond's visions having to be played out 100% as the audience does?)

I also believe that Charlie was saving Desmond from himself. Penny was on the monitor, and Desmond loves her, and desperately wants to be with her. If Charlie hadn't prevented Desmond from having access to get in that room, Desmond very possibly would've become fixated on Penny on the screen, and not left the room in time, and drowned himself.

So, Charlie's dying breath gave him th satisfaction that he had retuirned the life saving favor to Desmond, and gotten Claire and Aaron (And everyone else) rescued.
 
I also believe that Charlie was saving Desmond from himself. Penny was on the monitor, and Desmond loves her, and desperately wants to be with her. If Charlie hadn't prevented Desmond from having access to get in that room, Desmond very possibly would've become fixated on Penny on the screen, and not left the room in time, and drowned himself.

That is what I was driving at.
 
Charlie didn't want to survive, that's the whole point. He wanted to sacrifice himself because Desmond told him when he died in his vision, Claire and Aaron were rescued in a helicopter. Many viewers even believe if Desmond hadn't saved Charlie from the arrow in the throat, that Naomi would've been Penny (I personally don't see how, since naomi was already in the trees, but, why shouldn't Charlie put the same stock in Desmond's visions having to be played out 100% as the audience does?)

Yeah. That seems obvious to me now. It's entirely in keeping with his character and the fact that he was making that list for Claire suggested that he was making his peace with the world before he was going.

I'm putting it down to my brain being tired at the end of a LONG day of TV. And not that I'm stupid, no that can't be it :)
 
Yeah. That seems obvious to me now. It's entirely in keeping with his character and the fact that he was making that list for Claire suggested that he was making his peace with the world before he was going.

I'm putting it down to my brain being tired at the end of a LONG day of TV. And not that I'm stupid, no that can't be it :)

Don't sweat it, there is a barrage of posts on LOST websites from people saying the very same things about "Why didn't Charlie swim out the Porthole" or "Why did Charlie close the door from the inside"
 
That business about Jacob being seen in the chair blows me away! I remember seeing the chair...and I'm pretty sure it was empty! :DI'm going to have to go back and watch it again. I'm amazed that I didn't see that! I don't think I blinked during that scene!
 
That business about Jacob being seen in the chair blows me away! I remember seeing the chair...and I'm pretty sure it was empty! :DI'm going to have to go back and watch it again. I'm amazed that I didn't see that! I don't think I blinked during that scene!

It's only 11 frames of film, so, it's extremely quick, right near the end of the scene. It's the final straw that has John running out, I believe.
 
Jacob's profile looks the same as Jack's dad... but with a beard. It is the forehead.

Was the actor credited?
 
Jacob's profile looks the same as Jack's dad... but with a beard. It is the forehead.

Was the actor credited?


It's funny, so many people saw so many different people in Jacob. Locke, Ben, Jack. I personally think he looked like Jamie Sheridan who played Randall Flagg on the Stand.

http://www.imdb.com/gallery/granitz...path=pgallery&path_key=Sheridan, Jamey&seq=12


No one was credited for playing Jacob. And since the Producers have said that an actor hasn't been hired to play Jacob yet (remember the Tailees were shown as generic actors before the real ones appeared, and Penny in Desmond's picture the first time was a different person than the actress hired to play her, who now appears in the picture) I'm not even sure it bears talking about who Jacob looks like, at the moment. One would think they would get someone very similar looking (or maybe they're hiding something) but you never know. I'm still curious why Len Cordova was hired to play one of the Brazillians in the S2 Finale twist, other than his nose, the resemblance to Matt Fox is Phenomenal

http://www.imdb.com/gallery/hh/0502....jpg.html?path=pgallery&path_key=Cordova, Len

http://www.imdb.com/gallery/hh/0502...tml?path=pgallery&path_key=Cordova, Len&seq=2
 
That business about Jacob being seen in the chair blows me away! I remember seeing the chair...and I'm pretty sure it was empty! :DI'm going to have to go back and watch it again. I'm amazed that I didn't see that! I don't think I blinked during that scene!



Aaaaah. You see, only those of us sufficiently in tune with the island saw it first time through. :D
 

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