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Old July 2nd 14, 03:21   #11
RW7427
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Re: I Have A New WORST B5 Episode, and it is....

Yeah, View from the Gallery is a kinda sucky episode
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Old July 2nd 14, 13:27   #12
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Re: I Have A New WORST B5 Episode, and it is....

Weirdly enough, I couldn't get the auto-quote-reply thing to work for Springer.

Anyway, what I was saying was that season 1 has a particular tone and pace, and season 2 has that same tone and pace, up until the last 4 when suddenly - zang - it went from being a good, smart show for 40 episodes to being a GREAT show for 48 episodes. Then it kind of crapped out for 14 or so episodes. Then it was a really good show again for the last 7.

The focus and tone and pace changed massively all at once, and it went from chug-chug-chug-year that was interesting, yeah, that was pretty good to bang-bang-bang holy crap, did you see that? Holy crap, and they just topped it!
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Old July 2nd 14, 14:03   #13
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Re: I Have A New WORST B5 Episode, and it is....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Republibot 3.0 View Post
Weirdly enough, I couldn't get the auto-quote-reply thing to work for Springer.

Anyway, what I was saying was that season 1 has a particular tone and pace, and season 2 has that same tone and pace, up until the last 4 when suddenly - zang - it went from being a good, smart show for 40 episodes to being a GREAT show for 48 episodes. Then it kind of crapped out for 14 or so episodes. Then it was a really good show again for the last 7.

The focus and tone and pace changed massively all at once, and it went from chug-chug-chug-year that was interesting, yeah, that was pretty good to bang-bang-bang holy crap, did you see that? Holy crap, and they just topped it!
Once Byron and his telepaths were gone, it was like they threw a switch and it was a good show again. There were some good moments while Byron was still there, but not many. My lasting memory of Season 5 was when they showed Londo's descent, ending with him sitting in the throne room, all alone, in the dark. You know he's wearing a Keeper, and what's in store for him over the years of Drakh occupation if you've read the Legions of Fire trilogy.
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Old July 2nd 14, 18:09   #14
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Re: I Have A New WORST B5 Episode, and it is....

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Originally Posted by Republibot 3.0 View Post
Weirdly enough, I couldn't get the auto-quote-reply thing to work for Springer.

Anyway, what I was saying was that season 1 has a particular tone and pace, and season 2 has that same tone and pace, up until the last 4 when suddenly - zang - it went from being a good, smart show for 40 episodes to being a GREAT show for 48 episodes. Then it kind of crapped out for 14 or so episodes. Then it was a really good show again for the last 7.

The focus and tone and pace changed massively all at once, and it went from chug-chug-chug-year that was interesting, yeah, that was pretty good to bang-bang-bang holy crap, did you see that? Holy crap, and they just topped it!
Once Byron and his telepaths were gone, it was like they threw a switch and it was a good show again. There were some good moments while Byron was still there, but not many. My lasting memory of Season 5 was when they showed Londo's descent, ending with him sitting in the throne room, all alone, in the dark. You know he's wearing a Keeper, and what's in store for him over the years of Drakh occupation if you've read the Legions of Fire trilogy.
Yah, I agree. Byron was a disaster from start to finish. Worse yet (As I've said elsewhere) he was a superfluous character. They could have fit the whole Telepath War in the 14 episodes they wasted that season.

off-topic question: when they did the bit 20-year-reunion of all the cast surviving cast members (Excepitng Bruce, who was busy), Byron was there, but Keffer wasn't. Why no Keffer? Granted: Crap character and disposable, but he name was in the opening credits for a season, he was principle cast, logically he should have been there.

Theories?
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Old July 2nd 14, 19:05   #15
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Re: I Have A New WORST B5 Episode, and it is....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Republibot 3.0 View Post
off-topic question: when they did the bit 20-year-reunion of all the cast surviving cast members (Excepitng Bruce, who was busy), Byron was there, but Keffer wasn't. Why no Keffer? Granted: Crap character and disposable, but he name was in the opening credits for a season, he was principle cast, logically he should have been there.

Theories?
No telling - but there was nothing that said that they were trying to bring all surviving cast members. Possibly because there were already almost too many there for comfort? I'd far rather have seen Corwin or Morden or Ta'Lon (did see him in Galveston - great guy) or Wayne Alexander who played so many cool characters.

Jan
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Old July 2nd 14, 22:01   #16
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Re: I Have A New WORST B5 Episode, and it is....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Republibot 3.0 View Post
Weirdly enough, I couldn't get the auto-quote-reply thing to work for Springer.

Anyway, what I was saying was that season 1 has a particular tone and pace, and season 2 has that same tone and pace, up until the last 4 when suddenly - zang - it went from being a good, smart show for 40 episodes to being a GREAT show for 48 episodes. Then it kind of crapped out for 14 or so episodes. Then it was a really good show again for the last 7.

The focus and tone and pace changed massively all at once, and it went from chug-chug-chug-year that was interesting, yeah, that was pretty good to bang-bang-bang holy crap, did you see that? Holy crap, and they just topped it!
So I wrote a really long reply but got timed out and lost it all, so I'll try and summarise what I said. Basically, I approach each season individually. For me, seasons 2 and 4 are the most even throughout - there is not a really bad episode in either season and the quality is consistent. Season 3 has probably the best episodes of the entire series, but the gulf between season 3's best episodes and its worst episodes is much bigger than seasons 2 and 4. Plus, I always found the pacing in season 3 to be out of kilter somewhat. Matters of Honor starts things off well, but then we get a series of slower, non-arc episodes that slows the season right down when you really want to be building off the back of Fall of Night and really getting momentum going. The first really big episode in season 3 isn't until episode 8, and then we get that mini-trilogy ending with Severed Dreams. So great, finally got the momentum back and then we lose it again suddenly with Ceremonies of Light and Dark, Sic Transit Vir and Late Delivery from Avalon. It's only really from Ship of Tears onwards that season 3 maintains that momentum, and even then Grey 17 manages to sneak into that run of episodes.

I should point out I don't think those slower episodes are bad, I'm just talking about the overall effect they have on the pacing of the season as opposed to seasons 2 and 4.
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Old July 3rd 14, 20:07   #17
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Re: I Have A New WORST B5 Episode, and it is....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Republibot 3.0 View Post
off-topic question: when they did the bit 20-year-reunion of all the cast surviving cast members (Excepitng Bruce, who was busy), Byron was there, but Keffer wasn't. Why no Keffer? Granted: Crap character and disposable, but he name was in the opening credits for a season, he was principle cast, logically he should have been there.

Theories?
No telling - but there was nothing that said that they were trying to bring all surviving cast members. Possibly because there were already almost too many there for comfort? I'd far rather have seen Corwin or Morden or Ta'Lon (did see him in Galveston - great guy) or Wayne Alexander who played so many cool characters.

Jan
Wayne Alexander should be everywhere, at every con, probably pretending to be a different person every time.
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Old July 3rd 14, 20:11   #18
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Re: I Have A New WORST B5 Episode, and it is....

Dammit, this thing REFUSES to quote Springer.

Anyway, you're right about the momentum thing, but I always manage to forget that, and am surprised when I re-watch it later. JMS always said he wanted the season openers to be straightforward places for new viewers to jump on board, which, I think, was kind of a mistake. It just made stuff clunky, and I'd imagine it probably hurt viewership rather than helped it.
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Old August 10th 14, 20:56   #19
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Re: I Have A New WORST B5 Episode, and it is....

"A View from the Gallery" was truly horrendous. But it doesn't compete with the Season 1 clunkers.
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Old August 11th 14, 02:23   #20
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Re: I Have A New WORST B5 Episode, and it is....

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"A View from the Gallery" was truly horrendous. But it doesn't compete with the Season 1 clunkers.
What's interesting to me is that people insisted FOR YEARS that "Gallery" was brilliant, when in fact it was a great big ol' turd from the gitgo. Suddenly opinion has changed. I wonder why?

Anyway, what season 1 clunkers are there?

1- Midnight on the Firing Line? Rushed, but ok
2- Soul Hunter? Interesting, clunky, too early in the series, but not bad
3- Born to the Purple? Yeah, that one sucked, and has the single worst scene in all of B5, but it's no worse than the crap Trek was doing in those days.
4- Infection? Everyone hates this one, but it's not that bad.
5- The Parliament of Dreams? Brilliant
6- Mind War? Not bad. Suffers from "The Talia Curse" (She makes everything less interesting by being there), but not bad.
7- The War Prayer? Disposable, but not bad.
8- And the Sky Full of Stars? I take issues with the direction, which was largely shaped by the budget, but it's a good ep.
9- Deathwalker? Neat standalone.
10- Believers? Actually a really good episode, even if it's a bit Next Generationey, and if the subplot with the raiders does't work.
11- Survivors? Definitely sucks. Not worse than "Gallery," though.
12- By Any Means Neccisary? Brilliant
13- Signs and Portents? Brilliant
14- TKO? Sucks, but still better than Gallery because the stuff about Ivonova and her dead dad was actually really good.
15- Grail? Sucks. This one may be worse than "Gallery."
16- Eyes? Filler, but not bad. Better than a clip show.
17- Legacies? This one just doesn't quite work, now does it? I wouldn't say it's 'bad' but it never seems to hit the points it wants to. No, I take that back: the 20-something telepath "Girl" who's supposed to be about 12 or 13 is just horrible, and ruins it. It's bad.
18/19 - A voice in the wilderness? Vitially important, but also a little too padded out. Too much story for one, not enough story for two.
20- B^2 - not brilliant, but pretty darn good
21- The Quality of Mercy? I liked this one, but I can see why some people didn't.
22- Chrysalis? Brilliant!
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