B5TV.COM. Babylon 5 forums Babylon 5 message for the fans from Claudia Christian Babylon 5
Old January 3rd 14, 19:50   #21
Springer
Ambassador
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 398
Re: Vorlons!

Hiding away in his quarters was just Kosh being a typical Vorlon, aloof. He probably wasn't much interested in the goings on of the other races, he never attended council meetings until Sheridan turned up.

That said, he was clearly scared to do what Sheridan asked, to confront the Shadows, because he knew he would die. But he still did it because he knew, ultimately, that Sheridan was right. Of course he was scared - who wouldn't be? And he took a bit of prompting, a bit like Delenn had to prompt him in The Fall of Night, but he still did it. Isn't the definition of bravery about confronting your fears?

I think that was the difference between Kosh and the other Vorlons – Kosh respected members of the younger races like Sheridan and Delenn enough to listen to them and to die for them.

Kosh's fear humanised him and made him feel less alien, but it was also quite terrifying that this ancient, powerful being could still be scared.

(Now if Sheridan had known what was going to happen, would he have ever asked Kosh? Pre Z'Ha'Dum Sheridan, I doubt he would, post Z'Ha'Dum, maybe a different story).
Springer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd 14, 20:46   #22
Republibot 3.0
Psi Cop
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,540
Re: Vorlons!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Springer View Post
That said, he was clearly scared to do what Sheridan asked, to confront the Shadows, because he knew he would die. But he still did it because he knew, ultimately, that Sheridan was right. Of course he was scared - who wouldn't be? And he took a bit of prompting, a bit like Delenn had to prompt him in The Fall of Night, but he still did it. Isn't the definition of bravery about confronting your fears?
That's A definition of it, certainly. Others include "Not simply giving up" and "Not simply going along with everyone else." I suspect a large part of Kosh's bravery was the latter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Springer View Post
I think that was the difference between Kosh and the other Vorlons Kosh respected members of the younger races like Sheridan and Delenn enough to listen to them and to die for them.
I think he GREW to like them, largely through Sheridan. I don't think he inherently liked him. I imagine his perspective at the start of the series is pretty standard Vorlon: "Do what we say, be good little lapdogs." He changed his mind, and it must have taken quite a bit of coaxing to get the other Vorlons to go along with his plan. And when he died, it makes sense they'd go batshit: "We stick our necks out for them, and THIS happens! Screw them! Screw them all! Warm up the planet-killer!"

You'll note that Kosh - or at least a substantial bit of him - survived, and it would have been a simple matter to make that known to his own people. But he deliberately hid it, and then went up against his own people, and died for others a second time.

Recurring theme in B5: realizing your own side is wrong, and going up against it.

Think about it:
1) Delenn realizes her civilization is in the wrong, and basically disbands the government.
2) Sheridan realizes the EA is in the wrong and takes up arms against it.
3) Londo realizes his people were wrong in what they did to the Narn, and their alliance with the shadows is wrong. He overthrows his government.
4) G'kar realizes his hatred was wrong, and ends up going up against an angry mob that want to make him a god, then are willing to kill him when he says 'no.'
5) Lyta turns on the Psicorps
6) The Excalibur WOULD have gone rogue
7) Kosh rebelled against his own people

It's all about the rebellion in pursuit of a greater good.
__________________
Sincerely,

Kevin Long
(The Artist Formerly Known As Republibot 3.0, And The World's Greatest Living Thurl Ravenscroft Impersonator)
http://www.kevin-long.com
Republibot 3.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd 14, 22:28   #23
Ragzus
Ranger
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 43
Re: Vorlons!

Yeah it does feel as though interactions with sherridan make him accepting of the task of laying his life down, Perhaps before he was following the plan where shadows and vorlons didn't directly attack each other but through proxy used other races.

Which is why you know they have planet killers but one is never used on either home world.

"After all if you kill them, They will never know you were right and they were wrong!"


Imagine will you, If by your personal death it might rally elephants(for example) to protect themselves and stop poaching and *you* already had a plan to stop the killing but the bigger picture of helping all animals but first many more were going to die.
Would you give your life so easily?

I think some of his lack of appearance might be because of budget he's a dood in a suit there is only so much of that mysterious look you can use before it becomes old hat.
Ragzus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 4th 14, 02:06   #24
Republibot 3.0
Psi Cop
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,540
Re: Vorlons!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragzus View Post
Imagine will you, If by your personal death it might rally elephants(for example) to protect themselves and stop poaching and *you* already had a plan to stop the killing but the bigger picture of helping all animals but first many more were going to die.
Would you give your life so easily?
I don't think he thought like that. You're seeing it in terms of Kosh wanting to make a difference, and I don't think he nor any other vorlon thought like that. I think they were perfectly cool with the every-thousand-years-we-have-a-proxy-war thing. It went on for a million years. That's a THOUSAND wars, presumably Kosh lived through at least a hundred of them or so. The Vorlons and the Shadows were pretty attached to the status quo. Hell, I think they saw it as a public service.

I think Sheridan allowed Kosh to see the conflict from outside, and in so doing he let Kosh become more open-minded. Which led to the obvious conclusion we all know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragzus View Post
I think some of his lack of appearance might be because of budget he's a dood in a suit there is only so much of that mysterious look you can use before it becomes old hat.
Man, you're really obsessing over that costume, aren't ya?
__________________
Sincerely,

Kevin Long
(The Artist Formerly Known As Republibot 3.0, And The World's Greatest Living Thurl Ravenscroft Impersonator)
http://www.kevin-long.com
Republibot 3.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 4th 14, 10:27   #25
Ragzus
Ranger
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 43
Re: Vorlons!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Republibot 3.0 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragzus View Post
Imagine will you, If by your personal death it might rally elephants(for example) to protect themselves and stop poaching and *you* already had a plan to stop the killing but the bigger picture of helping all animals but first many more were going to die.
Would you give your life so easily?
I don't think he thought like that. You're seeing it in terms of Kosh wanting to make a difference, and I don't think he nor any other vorlon thought like that. I think they were perfectly cool with the every-thousand-years-we-have-a-proxy-war thing. It went on for a million years. That's a THOUSAND wars, presumably Kosh lived through at least a hundred of them or so. The Vorlons and the Shadows were pretty attached to the status quo. Hell, I think they saw it as a public service.

I think Sheridan allowed Kosh to see the conflict from outside, and in so doing he let Kosh become more open-minded. Which led to the obvious conclusion we all know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragzus View Post
I think some of his lack of appearance might be because of budget he's a dood in a suit there is only so much of that mysterious look you can use before it becomes old hat.
Man, you're really obsessing over that costume, aren't ya?
Don't get me wrong its a GREAT costume i love it, But perhaps they thought they couldn't get away with him appearing more with out having him do more.

I would've loved to see more kosh he was one of the more interesting characters in the first two seasons while the others backgrounds were still in progress of being built up.

And no i don't think he thought like that so much until sherridan made him look at it from the outside, Who wouldn't be happy living it large being curious and exploring all the weirdo races he got to talk to, if he so wished it likely he had data from any race he asked for it from as well.
If you are an energy based life from curious about the universe it was likely a dream life, but he did make himself a martyr when he could've avoided said fate.

It played out like a plot line does when somebody needs to die.
He could've called for support at the same time to ordering the attack, he could've "gone on a mission" right after the call and come back with a couple more vorlons to drive morden and his "friends" out
He could've also told sherridan the suspected result of his actions.

Though one of the rules of engagement could've been "no attacking each other, and if it happens the leader who ordered it forfeits his life"
But the vorlons were looking for his remaining "essence/part" and they seemed upset at the result of which they surely could've prevented.
Ragzus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 4th 14, 14:41   #26
Republibot 3.0
Psi Cop
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,540
Re: Vorlons!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragzus View Post
Don't get me wrong its a GREAT costume i love it, But perhaps they thought they couldn't get away with him appearing more with out having him do more.

I would've loved to see more kosh he was one of the more interesting characters in the first two seasons while the others backgrounds were still in progress of being built up.
I don't think it has much to do with budget, honestly. The show just had a sprawling cast. Eleven characters in the first season alone, plus a couple recurring. Twelve in the second season, plus a couple recurring. That's a LOT of characters to juggle in 44 mnutes of screen time, particularly when six of them are REALLY important, and get the lion's share of the episodes.

Franklin, Talia, and others tend to disappear for weeks at a time, simply because there's nothing for them to do, or so little that it can easily be foisted off on an extra. So it's not surprising that Kosh was mostly absent: He had very little to actually DO.
__________________
Sincerely,

Kevin Long
(The Artist Formerly Known As Republibot 3.0, And The World's Greatest Living Thurl Ravenscroft Impersonator)
http://www.kevin-long.com
Republibot 3.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 5th 14, 04:09   #27
RW7427
Moderator
 
RW7427's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: NE of Cleveland, OH
Posts: 46,435
Re: Vorlons!

He was too busy standing there and looking cryptic.
__________________
Since light travels faster than sound, some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
RW7427 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 5th 14, 04:47   #28
Ragzus
Ranger
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 43
Re: Vorlons!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Republibot 3.0 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragzus View Post
Don't get me wrong its a GREAT costume i love it, But perhaps they thought they couldn't get away with him appearing more with out having him do more.

I would've loved to see more kosh he was one of the more interesting characters in the first two seasons while the others backgrounds were still in progress of being built up.
I don't think it has much to do with budget, honestly. The show just had a sprawling cast. Eleven characters in the first season alone, plus a couple recurring. Twelve in the second season, plus a couple recurring. That's a LOT of characters to juggle in 44 mnutes of screen time, particularly when six of them are REALLY important, and get the lion's share of the episodes.

Franklin, Talia, and others tend to disappear for weeks at a time, simply because there's nothing for them to do, or so little that it can easily be foisted off on an extra. So it's not surprising that Kosh was mostly absent: He had very little to actually DO.
Perhaps they did have suspicious points with deathwalker and in the gathering enough to peek interest but they felt somewhat under used to me, maybe i'm just more curious about them so i am left wanting lol
Ragzus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 6th 14, 02:31   #29
Republibot 3.0
Psi Cop
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,540
Re: Vorlons!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragzus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Republibot 3.0 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragzus View Post
Don't get me wrong its a GREAT costume i love it, But perhaps they thought they couldn't get away with him appearing more with out having him do more.

I would've loved to see more kosh he was one of the more interesting characters in the first two seasons while the others backgrounds were still in progress of being built up.
I don't think it has much to do with budget, honestly. The show just had a sprawling cast. Eleven characters in the first season alone, plus a couple recurring. Twelve in the second season, plus a couple recurring. That's a LOT of characters to juggle in 44 mnutes of screen time, particularly when six of them are REALLY important, and get the lion's share of the episodes.

Franklin, Talia, and others tend to disappear for weeks at a time, simply because there's nothing for them to do, or so little that it can easily be foisted off on an extra. So it's not surprising that Kosh was mostly absent: He had very little to actually DO.
Perhaps they did have suspicious points with deathwalker and in the gathering enough to peek interest but they felt somewhat under used to me, maybe i'm just more curious about them so i am left wanting lol
Well, everyone's got their own favorite enigma from the show. Obviously that one's yours.
__________________
Sincerely,

Kevin Long
(The Artist Formerly Known As Republibot 3.0, And The World's Greatest Living Thurl Ravenscroft Impersonator)
http://www.kevin-long.com
Republibot 3.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7th 14, 08:52   #30
Ragzus
Ranger
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 43
Re: Vorlons!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Republibot 3.0 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragzus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Republibot 3.0 View Post

I don't think it has much to do with budget, honestly. The show just had a sprawling cast. Eleven characters in the first season alone, plus a couple recurring. Twelve in the second season, plus a couple recurring. That's a LOT of characters to juggle in 44 mnutes of screen time, particularly when six of them are REALLY important, and get the lion's share of the episodes.

Franklin, Talia, and others tend to disappear for weeks at a time, simply because there's nothing for them to do, or so little that it can easily be foisted off on an extra. So it's not surprising that Kosh was mostly absent: He had very little to actually DO.
Perhaps they did have suspicious points with deathwalker and in the gathering enough to peek interest but they felt somewhat under used to me, maybe i'm just more curious about them so i am left wanting lol
Well, everyone's got their own favorite enigma from the show. Obviously that one's yours.
Yeah the mars robot guys controlled by telepaths did nothing for me, but the vorlons just peek my interest.
Ragzus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 16:52.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2008 B5TV.COM