Londo's wife?

Re: Londo\'s wife?

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>I was merely commenting on using the /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif to indicate a joke - it has never been the first association for that particular kind of smiley for me.<hr></blockquote>

Sorry, I must have misplaced my copy of The Grammar of Smilies. I'll be more careful next time. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

Regards,

Joe

Re: Londo\'s wife?

Good. /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif

More seriously though... it's is odd how easy it is to misunderstand things, especially the tone of a message, on the boards (or e-mail for that matter), even when smilies are used. I've been semi-active on the 'net for a good 6 years by now (yeah, I know, compared to some of you guys here I'm still a newbie at this! /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif ) but still have trouble with it sometimes. Of course, the language barrier doesn't always help either.

Re: Londo\'s wife?

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kribu:
<font color=yellow>And by the way, I have seen "there's no accounting for taste" used not just jokingly, but also fairly sarcastically and not "nicely" at all, so it is used in that sense sometimes. </font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Yes, I have found that "dissing" someone and couching it as a joke is very common, particularly on the internet.

I was afraid it would cause a brief stir, but I've thought this about other posts to other people, and thought why not finally mention it.

After all, to each his own, right?

Re: Londo\'s wife?

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by hypatia:
<font color=yellow>Yes, I have found that "dissing" someone and couching it as a joke is very common, particularly on the internet.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
I disagree. I dont think there are THAT many spineless people. What is more common is people not KNOWING something is a joke and taking it the wrong way. This is mainly because when you are standing face-to-face with someone and they make a comment like "well there is no accounting for taste" you can judge by their facial expressions and the tone of their voice that they are just teasing you.

On the Internet there is no such medium, you only get to read. Knowing that Joe is very polite unless pushed by an annoying troll or two (it happens even to him once in a while) I took his context as a joke. He may have even assumed, from reading your posts over the last year that you may have understood it was a joke as well. Either way its clear there was a misunderstanding, and I am positive he wasn't "dissing" you and playing it off as a joke.

I *KNOW* there are times, over and over, where people dont realize I am joking on this board. This is because I have a generally sarcastic and sly sense of humor at times. In person I can be very deadpan when making a joke. I am one of those people who will make an inside joke, then look around the room to see who actually got it. On the Internet this doesnt translate so well all the time, and can come across in a different light. I accept that those long-time posters of this board who know me are getting a feel for that by now, and that many will not understand. *shrug* Thats how it goes. But even I dont just go around "dissing" people and playing things off as a joke. /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Londo\'s wife?

Recoil has a point. Absent tone of voice and the numerous non-verbal cues that we have in face-to-face conversation, it is easy to misread the "tone" or intent of a post. It helps to remember that any perceived "tone" we detect in another's post is generated first in our own heads and may or may not bear any resemblance to what was intended. If I see a post that strikes me as "questionable", I usually read it again and try to see if there is some other way of "hearing" it. Often there is. Except in cases where it is clear that someone is being nasty (or condescending) I usually give them the benefit of the doubt.

The flip side, of course, is that when we write we "hear" our own deathless prose in the tone we mean to convey. Sometimes the words on screen don't quite match that. I usually try to write these posts pretty much the way I'd say them (except for maybe being a little more aware of grammar.) Sometimes the "tone" is a little off in print.

Regards,

Joe

Re: Londo\'s wife?

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kribu:
<font color=yellow>Good. /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif

More seriously though... it's is odd how easy it is to misunderstand things, especially the tone of a message, on the boards (or e-mail for that matter), even when smilies are used. I've been semi-active on the 'net for a good 6 years by now (yeah, I know, compared to some of you guys here I'm still a newbie at this! /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif ) but still have trouble with it sometimes. Of course, the language barrier doesn't always help either.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

So Kribu, what are you trying to tell me when you use all those evil smileys on me at your board and at mine? /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

Re: Londo\'s wife?

Since this is dragging itself out, I might as well say one last thing on this point.

Are there people who really honestly believe that anything can be said, as long as it is said as a joke it is not rude in any way?

If so I'd like to know. So I can play on an even field, so to speak.

Personally, I called it as I saw it, that is all. /ubbthreads/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Re: Londo\'s wife?

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by hypatia:
<font color=yellow>Are there people who really honestly believe that anything can be said, as long as it is said as a joke it is not rude in any way?

If so I'd like to know. So I can play on an even field, so to speak.
</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

Probably, some people can be very naive.
However, there are lots of people who believe that as long as they are lying that other people will believe.

Re: Londo\'s wife?

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by hypatia:
<font color=yellow>Are there people who really honestly believe that anything can be said, as long as it is said as a joke it is not rude in any way?</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Yes. There are rude jokes, and there are also jokes that arent rude. It also matters if you are joking around with friends. I can say something that someone will think is rude, but if its a friend that I am teasing, it isnt, its understood as a joke or a friendly jab. I know lots of people who think that way, its not uncommon at all.

Re: Londo\'s wife?

It seems that "I was just joking" is supposed to clear everything up in some people's minds.

As I said, I just want to know what the rules are so I can know what is considered o.k. and what is not. I want to play on an even field.

Re: Londo\'s wife?

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by hypatia:
<font color=yellow>It seems that "I was just joking" is supposed to clear everything up in some people's minds.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
And if it doesnt, that can be called a grudge. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
Well hopefully you know the "rules." Frankly I wont just take someone's word on if they are "just joking" or not. But those who have been around this board for a long time I know to the point to take them at their word, or also to know if they arent joking (usually). Those who I dont know, I dont let it bother me and ignore it. *shrug*

Re: Londo\'s wife?

I'm reminded of the expression used in westerns: "You better smile when you say that, Pardnuh (partner)." It does matter what sort of tone you use, to convey how it is meant. When I use the phrase "There's no accounting for taste", it's usually because I can't fathom why someone's likes/dislikes are at odds with my own on a particular subject. If I think there are good, logical reasons why my viewpoint is more valid, I tend to discuss those reasons, rather than attribute the difference to taste. Joe is pretty quick to set people straight when they make ignorant or naive statements, but I don't believe he's been mean spirited about it, and I took his post at face value, that he truly meant it was just a matter of individual taste, and he has reiterated that.

In a similar vein, I have learned that on this BB and, I'm sure, others, that it is easy to be misinterpreted, especially when you are being facetious, or using sarcasm. I once posted a comparison of B5 and Trek implying that B5 had borrowed from Trek that was so outrageous I was sure everyone would know I was joking, but most didn't, and it took several more posts to convince others I was joking.

Re: Londo\'s wife?

So if I say you are all just frustrated impotent men /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif everyone is ok on that, right? /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

No matter, it's not my arena, anyway. Not the way I work. But I would like to know if any and all is automatically granted fair game if a joke is made of it.

Just curious. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

Re: Londo\'s wife?

Irrelevant. That was not the issue at hand.

Re: Londo\'s wife?

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by hypatia:
<font color=yellow>So if I say you are all just frustrated impotent men /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif everyone is ok on that, right? /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

No matter, it's not my arena, anyway. Not the way I work. But I would like to know if any and all is automatically granted fair game if a joke is made of it.

Just curious. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

Reread what I said.

Re: Londo\'s wife?

Actually, I think I would be less frustrated if I were impotent. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif But to answer your question, no, just making a jest of things doesn't make everything fair, but it does alter the sense in which it is meant, which does affect whether it is fair. An inaccuracy, or untruth, stated as true, is unfair. A mild jest, which is inaccurate, and acknowledged as such, may not be fair in the sense that it isn't true, but a jest often isn't true, or may only seem to be true in a superficial manner. If the jest is meant to be hurtful, or insulting, it is certainly unfair unless the recipient has done something to merit such treatment. You obviously found Joe's comment to be condescending, and thus insulting. He has explained that he didn't mean it that way, and tried to state it in such a manner as to not be seen as insulting , but to be taken at face value, that there IS no accounting for personal taste, his as well as yours, and to use a cliche to paraphrase, 'variety is the spice of life.' It's a pretty small thing as misunderstandings go.

Re: Londo\'s wife?

Which is one of the reasons I have wondered why this thread keeps going on. I wish everyone would just drop it.

But there seems to be a morbid fascination, somehow. I know it is usually better to 'rise above it', but sometimes an adult just has to say something.

I should remind myself of the motto "dont' let the bastards get you down" /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif