Been Away Forever-Need B-5 News

I was thinking more along the lines of what the cost was of making the cure (IE: like Deathwalker's immortality serum requiring the taking of another life) kinda scenario.

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My exact thought!

I was thinking more along the lines of what the cost was of making the cure (IE: like Deathwalker's immortality serum requiring the taking of another life) kinda scenario.

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I don't think that quite fits with JMS's statement that nobody believes the person who figures this out. In that case somebody would have to be deliberately killing large numbers of people to cure those who were being cured and a conspiracy on that scale simply couldn't be covered up If someone said the guy was wrong, the obvious retort would e "show me where the cure did come from"? The only source of such a "cure" would be unifected beings who aren't quarrantined on Earth. The logistics of killing and processing several billion of them without anybody noticing and without anybody blowing the whistle are damned small. (After all, why should even Humans on Mars or Proxima be willing to murder innoncents just to save people back on Earth? I'm sure there are factions on both worlds who are hoping Earth does die out, the virus burns iteslf out with no more hosts to infect and that the outer colonies can take over the political leadership of the Humans and eventually recolonize Earth themselves.)

I also don't think it fits with the cure not being what they think it is at first, because the nature of a Deathwalker serum would be obvious from the start. This sounds more like an unintended side-effect to me.

Regards,

Joe

Well, I didn't mean exactly like the Deathwalker serum, nor neccessarily mean killing humans.

It was merely an example of my thought process to explain what I meant by "cost"

Although, if there was a new intelligent species found, that wasn't immediately recognizable as such and they were killing it... or maybe taking something from telepaths, that made them into vegetables (doesn't ahve to be a 1:1 ratio either, damage or death to one being, may supply enough for 100,000 people to be cured)

And again, these aren't specific ideas, merely examples of what I meant by "Cost". (But, it's also possible I'm theorizing outta the wrong orifice )

I always wondered about what was the "box" or whatever it was that Gideon carried around.

Someone once said that it was supposed to be the oldest creature (if it was a creature) in the universe. Older than even the first ones. And that it had its own agenda.

Others said that it was just some kind of ancient organic computer that gathered (and disseminated) knowledge according to its own whims.

I thought Gideon would be one heck of a ship commander by the way.

You know, if they keep making B-5 related stuff, eventually its total amount of aired hours will equal that of Deep Space Nine.

The box is an Apocalypse Box, one of several. (I think JMS put their number at 5 or 6. He also said that Galen would be very angry if he knew that Gideon had one and was using it. He also said that one other person aboard the ship did know that Gideon had the box.)

By the way, did you ever notice that the box speaks in Gideon's voice? It is distorted, but that's Gary Cole.

When Gideon was shot at the end of S1 his spirit would have been transferred to the Apocalypse Box, at least for a time. JMS never said what would happen after that, exactly, but it sure sounds interesting.

Regards,

Joe

He also said that one other person aboard the ship did know that Gideon had the box.

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Didn't he actually come out at some point, I don't know if it was during the DVD commentaries or when, and actually say that it was Lt Matheson that was the one who knew Gideon had the box?

I don't remember that, but certainly Matheson seems the most likely.

I think Matheson more or less implies it himself when we see him do his personal log at the end of the episode where they copy data from the alien who was martyred for trying to smuggle out his planet's culture on data crystals.

I liked that episode.

It's been awhile since I've seen Crusade, but I seem to recall some implication that Matheson was aware of the box. Whether Gideon actually confided in him or if his thoughts just "leaked out" is unknown. Galen was also shown to be highly curious as to where Gideon was getting his information in "Racing the Night" and suspected he was being lied to. Of course, Galen was lying to Gideon as well (and gets caught first), and Max wil lie to just about anyone. Apparently, nobody there was exactly who they seem either.

Regarding the cure: For jms's scenario to fit, I would think that the false cure would have absolutely no ill effects for the time being, which is why no one would believe the the danger. This would be some kind of ticking time bomb - possibly resulting in something mentioned above.

As for enhancing the Telepath gene in normals, you can always overdose on "dust" for that.

Regarding JMSNews: These two sites certainly do look like carbon copies of each other lately.

The creature in the Apocalypse Box is that most mysterious and fearful ancient being: the McGuffin!


While the going renegade plot sure sounds interesting, I wonder if that's not JMS spinning his wheels over and over again, ie, B5 also having gone renegade. Of course we don't know the details around it and all the context, etc, I know, but still sounds awfully similar.

Wasn't jms a Blake's 7 fan?

I think a Rogue Excalibur plotline would pay homage nicely to that series. Rumour had it the people behind "Life on Mars" on the beeb were looking to remake Blake's 7 themselves. Their success on "Life on Mars" could well stand them in good stead if the rumour has any substance.

The script for "To the Ends of the Earth" very strongly implies that Matheson knows about the box. At one point, Galen asks Matheson why Gideon has ordered them to divert their course or something, and the script says something to the effect that Matheson's answer sounds like he's covering for Gideon, as if he knows that the Apocalypse Box is what prompted the change in orders.

Also, wasn't one of the story ideas for Season 1 (which, to my knowledge, never actually made it to the script stage) a story that featured Gideon, Matheson, and the box? And was supposed to have something to do with the box and Matheson's telepathic abilities.

Well I suppose if Gideon's soul was supposed to get trapped in the Apocalypse Box it makes sense that the most likely way they would figure out that he was in there would be if somebody with telepathic abilities could pick up on his presence.

I wonder if the Apocalypse Box was supposed to serve a purpose somewhere between that of the healing device and a soul hunter's "reaping" device.

By that, I mean to ask if it had a penal purpose... but the punishment was to let somebody's own deviant behaviour and evil desires, lead them into a situation whereby they died and had their souls captured by the box.

It makes you wonder because whatever it's purpose, presumably Gideon's soul would not be the only one contained within as he is definitely not the first person in possession of the device to die. When they eventually retrieved him, he may come out changed... because maybe he'd taken on elements of other people trapped in with him.

Well I suppose if Gideon's soul was supposed to get trapped in the Apocalypse Box it makes sense that the most likely way they would figure out that he was in there would be if somebody with telepathic abilities could pick up on his presence.

I wonder if the Apocalypse Box was supposed to serve a purpose somewhere between that of the healing device and a soul hunter's "reaping" device.

By that, I mean to ask if it had a penal purpose... but the punishment was to let somebody's own deviant behaviour and evil desires, lead them into a situation whereby they died and had their souls captured by the box.

It makes you wonder because whatever it's purpose, presumably Gideon's soul would not be the only one contained within as he is definitely not the first person in possession of the device to die. When they eventually retrieved him, he may come out changed... because maybe he'd taken on elements of other people trapped in with him.

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Thing is, it had his voice before he died. I'm not sure JMS do would do another Time Travel thing in order to get Gideon's soul inside the apocalypse box, and then end up in Gideon's hands earlier.

I would of made the Box transform into a hot babe inhabited by the soul of Gideon.

At points however you would be able to see the real soul,in high heels of course,and get to have two people play the same character through the Box and Soul.

That would cause some anarchy and sent Earthforce in pursuit.

It makes you wonder because whatever it's purpose, presumably Gideon's soul would not be the only one contained within as he is definitely not the first person in possession of the device to die.

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Actually, he may be. We've only seen one previous owner, and he didn't die until after he was no longer in possession of the box. He'd already lost it to Gideon. The box "gives" luck to the owner, but at a price. The man who lost it to Gideon was happy to have it gone, felt like a curse had been lifted from it. Then he ran into traffic and died. Looked like an accident, or maybe the curse of the Box, but it could also have been a suicide.

What if the box literally confers its favor in return for the victim's soul or something like it. What if you surrender a little bit more of yourself to it every time you use it? (JMS did say that the voice would sound incresingly like Gideon's as the season progressed.) It may only hold one soul at a time. Get rid of the Box, get your soul back, although your life may end shortly thereafter. If the Box is somewhat symbiotic, it may normally protect its owner. Maybe Gideon's assassination - comimitted far from where the Box is hidden, and by a sniper from a distatnce, is a unique event.

F***ing TNT.

Joe

While the going renegade plot sure sounds interesting, I wonder if that's not JMS spinning his wheels over and over again, ie, B5 also having gone renegade. Of course we don't know the details around it and all the context, etc, I know, but still sounds awfully similar.

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Which leads to my question: what would our heroes from B5 have thought of the Excalibur on the run? After all, if Shadowtech was involved, you'd think Sheridan would believe their story, and potentially help them out. Assuming, of course, that he ever heard their side of the story.

Which leads to my question: what would our heroes from B5 have thought of the Excalibur on the run?

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Sheridan and the IA would probably have covertly supported Gideon. More interestingly, so would Capt. Lochley of Babylon 5. She would finally have faced the crisis of conscience she avoided during Clark's reign. Given who she is, we can be sure that she would never have obeyed a clearly illegal order like bombing civilan targets. But since she never received such an order, and had no certain evidence that anyone else had (her sources of information being limited) she obeyed her oath as an EarthForce officer. But if she believes Gideon and has that belief reinforced by Sheridan, she would also have to decide how best to defend Earth - and would probably find that the way to do so was to support a renegade ship. (Presumably this is one reason Lochley was made a regular on the series.)

Regards,

Joe

F***ing TNT.

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Agreed.

I've also wondered what Lockely would've done during the Telepath War.

It was pretty clear in the last B-5 season that she was pretty friendly with Bester.

By the way, when are these "direct to DVD movies" or whatever they are going to be available? Does anyone have any idea what the storylines are?