New crusade viewers ?

I have never seen crusade before Monday and was wondering what all those who hadn't seen the show before what their thoughts on it were .Did it live up to expectations or was it a dud ?

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Well, this was my first time to see it too.

I loved it. I guess the main thing to remember is that it isn't B5, isn't meant to B5, and will never be B5.

I guess some people don't get that. All that aside, though, I enjoyed it for what it was. I didn't go into it expecting to see B5. I mean, even B5 didn't live up to B5 its first 13 episodes.

I hope it comes back, I loved the characters. In fact, I would be disappointed to see just one of them not come back. Some I liked more than others, but I thought all of them had potential.

In B5 it took me a season or two to warm up to some of the characters, but in just 13 episodes of Crusade I found just about all the main characters to be interesting.

Dud? Nope.

Going in, I knew it wouldn't be Babylon 5. They're trying to find a cure before everyone on Earth wounds up dead, so I knew they probably wouldn't have much time for profound revelations about our nature or the characters.

I agree with BlackStar. Given my hate it first, love it later take on Babylon 5, it took me a long time to warm up to the characters and the show itself. Crusade, I warmed up to very quickly. I actually learned who everyone was the first episode, and it's rare for me to like the cast enough to remember them after only one viewing.

Crusade also gave me more laughs than Babylon 5. B5 was funny at times, but I didn't have any belly laughs over anything. I've actually had to stop my tape several times watching Crusade while I finished laughing.

My only complaint was the order it was shown. I know JMS preferred it this way, but for the life of me, I will never know why he put the first episode second-last in the lineup.

All in all, there is something to be said for a show that can get me to watch it for 7 hours straight. I never got bored of it, and I completely lost track of time. After I realized what time it was, (1:30am) I got up and wrote a paper and went back to watching it. Not even B5 did that. I think Crusade had a lot of potential, and i would like to see the story continued with the same characters, somehow. I would prefer books to having Rangers pick up some of Crusade's story lines fulfilling them.

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"Medlab, this is Sinclair." -Bruce Boxleitner

We are all the sum of our tears - too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much and the best of us is washed away. - G'Kar

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> After I realized what time it was, (1:30am) I got up and wrote a paper and went back to watching it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you're forgetting something...

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Sheridan: Are you trying to cheer me up?
Ivanova: No sir, wouldn't dream of it.
Sheridan: Good, I hate being cheered up. It's depressing.
Ivanova: So in that case we're all going to die horrible, painful, lingering deaths.
Sheridan: Thank you, I feel so much better now.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tygirwulf:
I will never know why he put the first episode second-last in the lineup.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Because it isn't the first episode. It's a crappy retcon demanded by TNT, and is best left forgotten.

Racing the Night was written as the first episode, does a far better job at it than War Zone.


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You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.
-- Harlan Ellison qouting Gustave Flaubert

I agree that Racing the Night does far better as an opening episode, but showing War Zone second to last causes a serious continuity error.

I say it's better to not show it at all than confuse the audience that way.

A shame, really. Unlike many people, I actually enjoyed War Zone and found it more entertaining than both "Visitors From Down the Street" and "Patterns of the Soul."

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"We are all Kosh."

JMS admits he was kind of burnt out when time for "Crusade" came. And I STILL think its better than at least 90% of the tv shows out there. The characters really had promise, in my opinion. Galen couldn't be done without, and Max just made the cast! I just loved that character. Reminded me a bit of Blake's 7, and I only saw a few episodes of Blake's 7.

I may have to order the tapes some day. I know the end disappointed fans, but I have heard the rest of the series was quite good. (Blakes 7, I mean.)

I, too, hope "Rangers" becomes a series while they can still get a few of the original actors, and then "Crusade" can be resurrected, too.

If wishes were fishes....

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"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo

Opps my mistake I didn't mention my thought on it is I was a little disappointed in it in all of what I read

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I didn't have cable when B5 went to TNT, so I missed the last season. It wasnt until this year that I even knew another B5 series existed.

When I saw it I had mixed feelings at first, but I have come to like Crusade. After watching the run I wanted very badly for there to be more episodes!

I taped it on monday and have been watching it a few episodes at a time. Yesterdays new Enterprise seemed pretty limp after watching episodes of Crusade and B5 immediatley before it.

Side question- Did JMS even want to do another series or did he just do it because they were throwing money at him?

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-----Khurzhor-----

"Farewell friend. I was a thousand times as evil as thou."
-Stormbringer

It is my understanding that JMS was asked to do a 6th season of B5, but he specifically didn't want that. The actors' contracts were set up in such a way that they would all need raises to do more than 5 seasons, making the show unaffordable. B5 was set up to financially "self-destruct" on purpose, because B5 was a five year story, no more, no less.

If it was just a matter of "throwing money" at him, he would have done more B5.

He had said that there was plenty of room for other, non-B5 stories set in the B5 universe. Thus Crusade was started and when that fell through, Rangers can become an adequate replacement.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Khurzhor:
Side question- Did JMS even want to do another series or did he just do it because they were throwing money at him?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Jms never does anything just because people were throwing money at him (if he did, he'd never have hone B5.)

He wanted to do a new show, and took Crusade partly because he liked the B5 universe, and partly because he didn't want to put the B5 crew out of work.

He's since noted that at the time, he wasn't aware of how exausted he was, and that that made him unable to both fight off TNT and keep the writing quality up to where he felt it should have been.

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You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.
-- Harlan Ellison qouting Gustave Flaubert

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by drakh:
Because it isn't the first episode. It's a crappy retcon demanded by TNT, and is best left forgotten.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Except for the excellent Max bits.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
Racing the Night was written as the first episode, does a far better job at it than War Zone.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Agreed.

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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

Babylon 5 - Crusade marathon 10/8/2001 7AM-8PM on Sci-Fi

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/


[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited October 11, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by taichidave:
I agree that Racing the Night does far better as an opening episode, but showing War Zone second to last causes a serious continuity error.

I say it's better to not show it at all than confuse the audience that way.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sci-Fi bought the rights to show all 13 episodes. I guess they couldn't buy the rights to show all the episodes except War Zone, for a 1/13th reduced price. So, they showed War Zone, because they paid for it.

IIRC, JMS thought War Zone would do the least damage if shown 2nd to last.

Just do a search on War Zone at http://www.jmsnews.com/


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by taichidave:

A shame, really. Unlike many people, I actually enjoyed War Zone and found it more entertaining than both "Visitors From Down the Street" and "Patterns of the Soul."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

War Zone had some painful moments, and contradictions with Racing the Night (like how they got Max). Like I said though, War Zone is not without it's good moments (the Max bits where he's talking; still sometimes the music is too loud and walks on his lines) though, and I'd hate to lose them.

To me, "Visitors From Down the Street" was slightly better than War Zone, and I can't stand the Dime-Store Halloween Mask "action" of the alien's headgear. At least with D'Argo on Farscape they don't have the tendrils "quiver" like rubber bits hanging from a cheap Halloween mask.

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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

Babylon 5 - Crusade marathon 10/8/2001 7AM-8PM on Sci-Fi

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/


[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited October 11, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tygirwulf:
My only complaint was the order it was shown. I know JMS preferred it this way, but for the life of me, I will never know why he put the first episode second-last in the lineup.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by taichidave:
I agree that Racing the Night does far better as an opening episode, but showing War Zone second to last causes a serious continuity error.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just wanted to add my two cents on the matter ... you do have to overlook some really obvious continuity errors when you watch it in the SCIFI/JMS order, but the overall storyline makes a lot more sense. Plus, JMS said this about why War Zone was second to last ... "'Cause it's dumb and I never much liked it...?".

If you guys happened to tape all 13 eps, try watching it in the TNT/original order and then compare the two. It might be harder for newcomers who saw the SCIFI/JMS order first to see which is better but I would be interested to see what your impressions are.

I have a page that has the Crusade episode orders which also has some links to relevant JMS posts on the subject that might help.

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Monica Hübinette | http://monica.hubbe.net/ | http://abyss.hubbe.net/b5/

Find what excites you, and do it. Follow your joy; the rest will take care of itself.
--J. Michael Straczynski--

[This message has been edited by Lyta (edited October 11, 2001).]

I can understand that JMS would want it to catch fire and never be seen again, but I still think it would be okay to have shown it first.

I mean sure, we all hate it because TNT had its say, but it takes place before all the others.

They should have showed it first anyway. I mean, how much of an audience could they really attract to start watching Crusade at 6 AM besides me ?

Instead it was second to last, meaning it got more viewers than Racing the Night.

Rant complete, continue.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlackStar:
They should have showed it first anyway. I mean, how much of an audience could they really attract to start watching Crusade at 6 AM besides me

?

Instead it was second to last, meaning it got more viewers than Racing the Night.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps they should have shown it first (or near the beginning at least) but not for the reason you state. This order was decided when SciFi first picked up the rights to show Crusade and they showed it on a weekday slot right after B5. Even JMS said in one of his posts that he picked the order from memory. Maybe the bitterness with War Zone was too fresh in his mind and influenced his decision unfairly?

Besides, chain reactions seem to be more for the fans than attracting new viewers.

However, what you said brings up another interesting concept ... is there a better order than the one JMS and SciFi came up with?

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Monica Hübinette | http://monica.hubbe.net/ | http://abyss.hubbe.net/b5/

Our thoughts form the universe. They always matter. --G'Kar of Babylon 5

I'm aware that SciFi was probably under contract to show it in the JMS order.

What I was saying was that War Zone ended up in a slot that gave it higher ratings than the better opener--Racing the Night, which is an unfortunate consequence of the Crusade Chain Reaction.

Is there a better order? Probably. I'm just not certain that seeing War Zone first would be so terrible.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> ... is there a better order than the one JMS and SciFi came up with? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, let's find out! There are only 6,227,020,800 different combinations to air the series. One of them's bound to work out for the best.

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Sheridan: Are you trying to cheer me up?
Ivanova: No sir, wouldn't dream of it.
Sheridan: Good, I hate being cheered up. It's depressing.
Ivanova: So in that case we're all going to die horrible, painful, lingering deaths.
Sheridan: Thank you, I feel so much better now.

SciFi is NOT going to interpret those ratings by absolute numbers. They will Weight them according to the time each was shown.

They are very aware of just how time of day affects the number of people tuning in. It's their Business to know. When it comes to counting the Money they are making, you can trust them 100%.



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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazybillyo:
Well, let's find out! There are only 6,227,020,800 different combinations to air the series. One of them's bound to work out for the best.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe ... well, I don't know if I have time to figure it out but I would be interested in seeing if there is a "fan prefered order". Any takers?


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Monica Hübinette | http://monica.hubbe.net/ | http://abyss.hubbe.net/b5/

Our thoughts form the universe. They always matter. --G'Kar of Babylon 5