In the Beginning question

I was watching it on DVD and a question struck me .When Delenn is in Dukhat's sanctum his hologram appears .He says if you are seeing this it is because I am dead.Don't remember the rest of line but you mean to say if,I am assuming correctly that the vorlons told him he was going to die ?Seems kind of odd that he knew he would die.

Most people assume that they are going to be dead when their Last Will and Testerment is read out. Leaving messages to be read after you are dead is not that unusual, it normally happens when the person is going to do something dangerous.

I know that /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gifbut that isn't quite what I was asking .Most people do leave last wills and leave statements and such. /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif If the vorlons knew the prohecy and of course about the shadows .The Babylon station would never have been built of course without the war .The shadows may have had the run of the universe and would have been able to concur their enemies.The station and a bunch of aliens defeated them.With Dukhat alive isn't there a small possiblity the shadows would have won.?If I remember correctly he had bunch of hard headed people on the council and the trend continued into the series it self .

EDIT AGAIN I know the question I want to ask but I am a little tongue tied and with my fingers.Sorry

It isn't clear how much of the future Valen revealed directly to the Vorlons. He was careful about what he said, for fear of changing things. But even if the Vorlons knew that Dukhat was going to die, it doesn't follow that he did. It is extremely unlikely that they'd trust one of the younger races, even a Minbari of Dukhat's stature, with the knowledge of when and how he was going to die. Too great a risk that change his mind at the last minute and tell the helmsman to hang a right instead of turning left at the critical moment. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I think Andrew is right. Dukhat left a recording for his eventual successor in case something happened to him before he formally handed over power. A reasonable precaution.

Regards,

Joe

Thanks Joe D.

Why Dukath didn't contact humans himself? I mean, why he left it to the others to do?

Simply because he trusted them.

Regards,
Marko Marin

Dukhat did not contact the humans bacause he didn't want to override his authority with the grey council.

Why Dukath didn't contact humans himself? I mean, why he left it to the others to do?

Click to expand...

He didn't leave it for others to do. He assigned Delenn to study the Humans in preparation for First Contact, then he set out with the rest of the Council for Z'ha'dum. Presumably he intended to continue searching for the Humans after he determined whether or not the Shadows had returned to Z'ha'dum. Since the Minbari ships blundered into the Prometheus task force and Dukhat was killed, he never got the chance.

His recording contained instructions about things he had planned but hadn't yet done. Since contacting the Humans was one of these items, it stayed in the recording as he (presumably) updated it from time to time. He only "left the task to others" in the sense that he died before he got around to it, and therefore mentions it in his "will".

Regards,

Joe

Anyone wish to speculate what would have happened had the Grey Council Fleet reached Z'ha'dum? Do they think their stealth technology is enough to hide from detection by the Shadows? It seems they would have had to look pretty closely (especially back then) to find any evidence of Shadows - since Z'ha'dum still looked mostly like a dead world ten years later, the Shadows not wanting anyone to know they were active again. If they discovered the Minbari snooping, would they have destroyed the fleet to not let the information escape (though that should mount an investigate on the part of the Minbari when their entire higher government goes missing; maybe the Shadows would blame it on the Humans, heh, and start the war) or if any did escape with news, would the Shadows up their time table? Delenn said they had to pretend they knew nothing or the Shadows would move early and before the others were ready.

So, in short, was going to Z'ha'dum a bad idea that luckily didn't happen?

The Vorlons were already aboard. They probably would have been able to intervene one way or another, so on the whole I doubt there would have been much danger to the Grey Council from the Shadows. Most likely the Vorlons would have persuaded Dukhat to abandon the mission, or, if the ship came under attack by the Shadows, they probably would have deflected the attack somehow.

I suspect that the Vorlons manipulated the Minbari in going to Z'ha'dum, knowing that the humans would open fire.

That doesn't make much sense to me. First, the Minbari-Human fight was not at Z'ha'dum. Second, it began mainly as an accident; if Dukhat had been on the command deck when the Humans were first spotted, the war probably would not have occured. Third, the Vorlons tried to END the war, albiet later on and only by telling Delenn to end it.

It's my opinion that if Delenn had not been able to bring the war to a conclusion quickly, the Vorlons would have revealed themselves to the Grey Council and told them point-blank to stop.

But that's all speculation. What happened, happened.

The Vorlons need Babylon 4 and 5 building. The humans made them because of the Earth-Minbari War. This meant that the war had to both start and stop.

Thats my take on things.

The B5 universe has a closed time loop. things happen as they should happen and so the vorlons knew the things that must pass in order for the second shadow war to be won by the young races (though I'm in doubt regarding the booting Sheridan gives both the Shadows AND the Vorlons. I think this came as a suprise to the Vorlons who only knew about the future from Sinclair/Valan... Unless they live out of space-time and so can know all that is happening a cross time and space at any moment...)

The time line in Babylon 5 is like a metal ring hanging from a washing line. The ring is between Babylon 4 appearing during the first Shadow War and disappearing during the final shadow War. The Vorlons do not appear to realise that they are in end game until Sheridan nukes Z'ha'dum.