Sati De'Lenn - kick-ass Minbari or damsel?

Sati De\'Lenn - kick-ass Minbari or damsel?

Does anyone else get a bit confused with the way De'Lenn is written over the series?

There are times when it seems obvious the Sati could rip your head clean off, others when she's a little too much the damsel in distress.

For example, forgetting the pilot (where she almost strangles G'Kar by will/ring alone), when she and Leniere first meet Marcus in down-below and then run foul of muggers, she handles a Minbari fighting pole like someone whose been through training, but in the gro_po's ep, she wilts like a daisy in the face of obuse from obviously drunk gro_pos 'til the female gro_po saves her ass. In another ep, she easily restrains a would-be enemy in down-below by simply crushing his middle-finger.

She comes to the stations aid against EF with the famous, "He is behind me, you are before me" battle-cry, she faces down the Grey council by will and charisma, she out-Minbari's Neroon in the star-wheel etc. But when it comes to the crunch - like when Cynthia Taukman, ISN (sp?) - rides her over her physical changes she collapses once again like a wall-flower. I really wanted her to let Cynthia have it!

I'm not saying I expected her responses to always be violent ones, but I have a really hard time accepting her knuckle-chewing stuttering to Cynthia when I've seen her reduce the Grey council to mush /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Re: Sati De\'Lenn - kick-ass Minbari or damsel?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
kick-ass Minbari or damsel?

[/quote]

Both. That the way it works in the real world isn't it?

Re: Sati De\'Lenn - kick-ass Minbari or damsel?

Mike's right - like most people Delenn (no apostraphes in Minbari names /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif) has more than one dimension, and she can act differently at different times and in different situations.

The two cases where you seem to think she was "wimpy" are interesting because they both happen fairly soon after her transformation, when she is still adjusting to the changes, both psychologically and physically. Both incidents involve people attacking her still-uncertain "identity", and both specifically assail her as a representative of the Minbari who slaughtered so many Humans, especially at The Line. (The soldiers ask "what she is", while Cynthia Torqueman asks if her hybrid appearance isn't an insult to the families of those who died in the war.) These things hit her at her two most vulnerable points: Her doubts about her interpretation of prophecy (by which she justified her use of the Chrysalis) and her buried guilt about her role in starting the Earth-Minbar War. It is hardly surprising that she reacts defensively and emotionally when attacked where she is weakest. She has already been rejected by many Minbari for her change, when she encounters the same reaction from Humans she has to wonder what kind of "bridge" she can be between two races who only seem to have their hatred of her in common. Also, in the bar scene, she is trying to avoid a physical confrontation, which is not unusual behavior for her. (The scene with Marcus and Lennier in down-below involves an ambush, not verbal hazing and the threat of violence. Since Dodger intervenes before a full-scale fight breaks out, it is hard to know what Delenn would have done if the harassment had escalated. Once Dodger arrives and distracts her would-be attackers, Delenn does the sensible thing in the circumstances - she finds Garibaldi and has him call in reinforcements. This is more prudent than simply joining Dodger in the fight, because the two of them would still be outnumbered, and because help is close at hand. It is also prudent because tensions are generally high aboard the station, and the fighting at that point is strictly between Humans. Better to let Human security handle things and keep the Minbari out of it.

Delenn appears "tougher" when the circumstances require it, and when she is on ground she is more certain of. Pre-transformation she is Satai. By the time of the overlapping Civil Wars on Earth and Minbar she is comfortable with her new self, and with the rightness of choice, which has been vindicated by the part she played in ending the Shadow War.

It is also easier to be "kick ass" from the bridge of a warship or facing the Warrior Caste from within the Starfire Wheel (the perfect stage for Delenn's theatrical side) than surrounded by hostile strangers in a bar, or getting her first taste of ambush-journalism from an Earth reporter. (I'm not sure how news is disseminated on Minbar, but you have to assume that they don't have anything like the kind of no-holds-barred free press that ISN represents.)

Some people complain that Delenn is too wishy-washy in S5, but again, this is situational. With the crises of the four wars that occupied the first three seasons over, and no longer occupying a paramilitary command role but a more specifically political one, Delenn reverts to her softer image. But that doesn't stop her from going behind Sheridan's back when she thinks it necessary, nor from sending Lennier on a possibly suicidal mission when discovering the truth behind the raids becomes important enough.

Regards,

Joe

Re: Sati De\'Lenn - kick-ass Minbari or damsel?

Also, though this is probably far less significant than what joe is saying, the last time Minbari went toe to toe with the human military there was a bloodbath, for which we know Delenn had a great degree of responsibility. Having seen the tragedy of those events, would she risk a return to those days by fighting trained soldiers. Similarly, going up against a reporter is hard enough, but when you realise whatever she said would have been transmitted to billions of people, you might understand her reluctance to say anything that might put the wrong foot forward so to speak, and in fairness, you do not know how many questions Delenn was asked, nor how the programme was edited, it could have been a con job like Randall's report.

Re: Sati De\'Lenn - kick-ass Minbari or damsel?

Also - when Delenn falls apart in front of the ISN cameras, I always thought it was because she doesn't have experience with human reporters and their wily ways. Minbari society, apparently, never developed that kind of media (although it would be interesting to see what Minbar's version of a reporter was, anyway...)

It was totally believable that Delenn cracked in the face of that ISN reporter. She had no experience with it. After all, it didn't look like the alien ambassadors on B5 did many press conferences (and when was the last time you saw the ambassador from Spain on television, anyway?)

Re: Sati De\'Lenn - kick-ass Minbari or damsel?

She's a woman (duh!) but look at women in general. They can be both hard and soft in their approaches within a heartbeats of each other. So lets be honest , each woman out there is both a damsel as well as a kick ass Minbari type chick /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: Sati De\'Lenn - kick-ass Minbari or damsel?

Why thank you, I'll take that as a compliment. Who wouldn't want to be like Delenn!

Re: Sati De\'Lenn - kick-ass Minbari or damsel?

I wouldn't... /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Re: Sati De\'Lenn - kick-ass Minbari or damsel?

I'd rather be the ISN reporter. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Re: Sati De\'Lenn - kick-ass Minbari or damsel?

Hmm. Is Channe saying that if she were a reporter, she'd be like this one was? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Forget what you think about her asking "tough questions" and how that might be necessary in interviews. That "beauty and the beast" bit was enough to make me groan. /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Re: Sati De\'Lenn - kick-ass Minbari or damsel?

Joe took the words right out of my mouth.
Look at some other examples of kick-ass/soft females. Hello...what about Ivanova?
A great non-B5 example is Sara Pezzini from Witchblade. Talk about kick-ass and vulnerable! (the series that is).
Delenn has always been my number one female hero on B5. She was tough when circumstances needed it and yet was able to show her feelings in other situations.
We could say that of most of the characters. We could relate to them because we had seen people just like them all around us.
Delenn's weakness was her continual self-doubt of her place in the universe and in her society after her change. Once the Shadow War was over and the Minbari civil war was over she was able to start being more politician and woman. She knew she was the right person in the right place and didn't need a Vorlon interrogator to tell her.
All the characters went through changes in the five and more years we saw. They went from warrior to worker to religious and back again in some cases. Others, stopped at being politicians. They all were complete characters with faults and glories intermingled.
It's called, being human.

Re: Sati De\'Lenn - kick-ass Minbari or damsel?

I *am* a reporter! (or, "The Enemy," as someone put it at an event I covered last week.)

Re: Sati De\'Lenn - kick-ass Minbari or damsel?

Reporter = the ancient enemy = agent of chaos? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Re: Sati De\'Lenn - kick-ass Minbari or damsel?

Does this mean that network television is guided by the Shadows? I've always disliked them -- now I know why!

Re: Sati De\'Lenn - kick-ass Minbari or damsel?

Newspapers, magazines, websites... would you expect less? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Re: Sati De\'Lenn - kick-ass Minbari or damsel?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />

I *am* a reporter! (or, "The Enemy," as someone put it at an event I covered last week.)



[/quote]

Only if they are dodgy businessmen. To politicians the press is a tool of the trade. To the general public journalists are a magnifying mirror with built in light.

Re: Sati De\'Lenn - kick-ass Minbari or damsel?

LOL! I like that metaphor!

Re: Sati De\'Lenn - kick-ass Minbari or damsel?

Oopsie. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif So sorry, Channe, I forgot what you were doing right now. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Many apologizings. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I bet you'd never say anything as corball as that "beauty and the beast" line, though.

Re: Sati De\'Lenn - kick-ass Minbari or damsel?

I forget what line it was.

Cornball is, hopefully not in my vocabulary. I strive to be one of those reporters that doesn't ask stupid questions, and yes, there IS a such thing as a stupid question. Example: in September, I interviewed a 9/11 family. They showed me an urn of ashes from Ground Zero that they were sent, and then mentioned that another reporter had asked them "can you open it so we can take a picture?"

Ummmmmmm...

...I'm a classy dame, not a corny one.

On the other hand, if I was given footage of Delenn standing at the sidelines biting her nails and then given footage of Delenn commanding the White Star Fleet, I *would* have to ask a question about it. It's just too obvious not to.

Re: Sati De\'Lenn - kick-ass Minbari or damsel?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I forget what line it was.

[/quote]
I suppose it was a "bit" more than a line. It was the scene where she was standing in front of a door to the alien sector, posing and obviously thinking herself to be very gorgeous. A Pak-Mahra walks out and pauses for a moment when she says her line about how it is in the eye of the beholder who is beauty and who is beast.

Not quite like that, but something like that.

Anyway, bleck! It was a great scene, don't get me wrong. But it was one of those moments in the episode when you really get a crystal-clear image of just how shallow and "posing" this reporter really is.

Just cornball.