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Sheridan and the Exclaibur ?
- Thread starter Shaal Mayan
- Start date
B5_Obsessed
Regular
Much like today's air combat, I believe the answer comes down to who shoots first. From what we've seen, there's no doubt that the Excalibur's main guns would utterly destroy a Shadow ship, but what is unclear is just how the Excalibur's hull (was it called fractal armor?) would protect against the Shadow slicing beam, which also destroys anything in its path. All things being equal in that regard, it comes down to early detection and speed - two areas in which I would think the Shadow has a distinct advantage. The Shadow ship is, in essense, a living ship (though not in the same way as a Vorlon ship) and can kill at the speed of thought. It is also frighteningly fast and maneuverable and can enter and exit hyperspace effortlessly. By contrast, the Excalibur is a "dumb" ship, filled with people waiting for orders to carry out. It is also a lumbering monster 1-1/4 miles long. Although it can go fast in a straight line once up to speed, I don't think maneuverability is one of it's traits. It was meant to blast through obstacles rather than go around them.
It must form a jump point using conventional jump engines (the Vorlons never upgraded), and don't get me started on the 60-second power drain.
Unless they got a lucky shot, or used Mattheson to block it, I'd give the prize to the Shadow.
SPOILER
In "To the Ends of The Earth", the Excalibur would have been destroyed by the Shadow hybrid if Gideon hadn't outwitted it with a lucky shot.
KoshN
Super Moderator
Excalibur Defense Against Shadow and Vorlon Beam Weapons
I suspect a slicer beam from a Battlecrab would destroy the Excalibur in one shot. The only things that beam has ever hit and not immediately destroyed, were 100% Vorlon ships.
I'm certain that the main weapon from any Vorlon ship from a Transport on up, would destroy the Excalibur immediately.
Remember, one of the reasons the Whitestars prevailed in fights, was their extreme maneuverability. The Excalibur definitely does not have that.
Excalibur Offense Against Shadow and Vorlon Ships
I also suspect that the main gun of the Excalibur (a short duration version of the Vorlon beam weapon) would severely damage, but not destroy a Battlecrab. It just wouldn't have enough duration to destroy a Battlecrab (Go look at "Interludes and Examinations." You'd need a duration about four times as long, as what the Excalibur has, and then you have to wait a minute between shots.). However, the sustained fire from all four secondary guns (the equivalent of four Whitestar main guns), would destroy a Battlecrab.
Against any Vorlon ship larger than a fighter, I don't think the Excalibur would stand a snowball's chance in Hell of harming it.
A_M_Swallow
Regular
It was about 20 minutes to burn through a Shadow Crab, that is why Lyta was so tired in "Walkabout". Fast burns required two ships.
KoshN
Super Moderator
Incorrect.
Walkabout
20 seconds of Whitestar normal full power beam + 9 seconds of Whitestar absolute full power beam (which includes all power stored in the jump engines) = shriveled and bled-out Battlecrab. After 25 seconds, the Battlecrab was holed. What might have drained/hurt Lyta was her staying in contact with the Battlecrab as it was being destroyed.
12 seconds of Narn Battlecruiser twin beams and 3 seconds of Whitestar 60% power beam = shriveled and bled-out Battlecrab. This was the one Battlecrab that the three Minbari telepaths couldn't block. They were already blocking one each. Lyta couldn't get through to it because she was exhausted. However, once hit by the twin Narn beams, it stopped, probably from pain/shock, and the Whitestar beam at 60% power had enough to finish it off.
20 minutes was the re-charge time for the Whitestar jump engines.
FYI...
Interludes and Examinations
Less than 8 seconds of continuous beam from a Vorlon Light Cruiser (inbetween a battlecruiser and a transport in size) = thoroughly cooked and blown-to-bits Battlecrab.
B5_Obsessed
Regular
I don't know that the Excalibur would need a prolonged duration. The main guns were purported to be the most powerful weapon in the Alliance arsenal. It is the proverbial "alley cleaner." One shot wiped out a huge Drakh transport and several support ships in the last aired episode of Crusade. It took 6 or 8 Whitestars to destroy the similarly large Drakh mothership on Babylon 5.
By Grabthar's Hammer, we've crossed into total geekdom.
KoshN
Super Moderator
Nope. The Excalibur's main gun is on par with the Vorlon beam weapon from ~a light cruiser, or maybe even a transport, but certainly above a fighter. It just does not have the duration of the beam weapon from a 100% Vorlon craft, e.g. the eight second burst from the Vorlon Light Cruiser in "Interludes and Examinations."
One shot from the main gun of the Excalibur wiped out a Drakh mothership (what you're calling a transport) in "Each Night I Dream of Home." One shot also wiped out a Drakh Cruiser (what a Drakh Mothership carries) in "War Zone," but that's not a big deal because the secondary (Whitestar level) guns destroyed many Drakh Cruisers in "War Zone." However, Drakh ships are nothing compared to 100% Vorlon ships w.r.t. the ability to dish out and take fire.
BTW, in Lines of Communication , it took several Whitestars destroy something that was bigger than a Drakh Cruiser (same shape), but smaller than a Mothership (wrong shape). "Each Night I Dream of Home" was the first time we saw a Drakh Mothership. They're 59.69km long. Drakh Cruisers (3316.0m) are about the same length as the Excalibur (2990.31m). Whitestars are only 475.6m long, ~1/7th the size of a Drakh Cruiser.
Other B5 info. from Netter Digital Size Charts
Omega Class Destroyer: 1714.3m
Warlock Class Destroyer: 1992.4m
Drakh Tanker: 956.0m
B5_Obsessed
Regular
That Drakh mothership was supposed to be alomst 25 miles long? Wow. It didn't look THAT big.
"Lines of Communication" was the one I was addressing as well. At the time, I would've sworn that ship was referred to as a mothership.
I never addressed the Excalibur taking on a Vorlon, just a Shadow. And those ships did seem somewhat vulnerable - if you could hit them.
"Lines of Communication" was the one I was addressing as well. At the time, I would've sworn that ship was referred to as a mothership.
I never addressed the Excalibur taking on a Vorlon, just a Shadow. And those ships did seem somewhat vulnerable - if you could hit them.
KoshN
Super Moderator
It's hard to judge the size of things unless you have a reference of known size right next to it, like we saw in "Each Night I Dream of Home." Remember when it showed Drakh Cruisers coming out of the Drakh Mothership?
Well, it was a "mothership" to Drakh Fighters. Remember the ones slung underneath?
I just brought it up as a comparison, and because of the similarities between the Excalibur main gun, and Vorlon ships' weapons.
ps. You know, your avatar looks like a strange morphing between Alan Rickman and Tim Allen.
B5_Obsessed
Regular
Tim Allen had 80s hair. Rickman had the fins.
KoshN
Super Moderator
In "Galaxy Quest," yes. I was just referring to the face/hair in the avatar, and the actors sans makeup/prosthetics, not "Galaxy Quest." ...though I now see where you got that picture.
See Attached.Boy IMDb is really a pain-in-the-a** anymore. Can't link to a pic. (image or URL). Can't save a pic.
Scumbags.
Attachments
RW7427
Super Moderator
Well, before they built the Excalibur, Earth didn't have the "biggest, baddest ship in the galaxy", and that was what Sheridan was going for. He probably figured that using Vorlon tech, plus some Minbari tech mixed in with the Earth tech would do just that because Earth wasn't capable of building something like that with just Human tech.
