Battlestar Galactica The Greatest Scif show? or Babylon 5 [Spoilers for BSG S4]

Re: Battlestar Galactica The Greatest Scif show? or Babylon 5

thinker2222 said:

...Don''t care....

Click to expand...

You must; you keep coming back.

As for the contents of your "review", it was nothing but a list of nick names born out of a desire to mock, not out of analysis.

Re: Battlestar Galactica The Greatest Scif show? or Babylon 5

Vacanlook forget it he's not going to give you the last word and you know it so why get your blood pressure up by trading insults.It's simply not worth the time or trouble. The intent was discuss the merits of Galactica vs B5 and it gotten away from the subject and its getting quite foolish . I say simply to each his own and move on. Remember one thing reviews are simply matters of opinion not the gospel truth as some might believe.

Re: Battlestar Galactica The Greatest Scif show? or Babylon 5

Cell said:

Keep em coming, it's very funny to watch you continue to try and spin and avoid the criticism that has been leveled against you. I never tire of people with your attitude, "I'll throw as much shit as I can against the wall, and some of it will stick. But, even if it doesn't they won't actually notice my inept attempts at ignoring the criticism leveled against me because I'll drown them in nonsense and hyperbolic elitism." Of course you haven't reached peer level here yet, none of us have managed to degenerate to your level, and I don't see it happening any time soon. Although you teaching myself and others about how to write a piss-poor review whilst covering your obvious deficiencies as a writer with hyperbole, juvenile humor, generalizations, and the like is always good for a laugh.

Click to expand...

Attempts at personal defamation are the last attempt of the person who has nothing left in his limited arsenal to argue.

What facts do you have?

Facts not personal attacks. Where am I wrong in my analysis? Can't you at least argue the point at issue; or do you think that by attempting anjd failing to attack the man you win anything?

Let's see? Appeal to emotionalism, character assassination but not word about the episode , other than you didn't like what I wrote.

WHY? Did I hurt your feelings and diminish your ego by pointing out that your defense of a trash series was poorly thought out and basically not on point?

I don't care about that non-relevant garbage. I want to see if you can argue at least as my peer on this topic.

So come on: let's see if you can even analyze, based on the topic issues raised here.

Try to defend Jamie Bamber's performance in the episode."Escape Velocity" for example.

I want to see if you have the talk to back up your walk.

Come on... Let's see what you've got.

T.

Re: Battlestar Galactica The Greatest Scif show? or Babylon 5

Garovorkin said:

Vacanlook forget it he's not going to give you the last word and you know it so why get your blood pressure up by trading insults.It's simply not worth the time or trouble. The intent was discuss the merits of Galactica vs B5 and it gotten away from the subject and its getting quite foolish . I say simply to each his own and move on. Remember one thing reviews are simply matters of opinion not the gospel truth as somemight believe.

Click to expand...

You can join him.

Try.

That is all I ask, at least just try.

T.

Re: Battlestar Galactica The Greatest Scif show? or Babylon 5

Thinker Im really not looking for a fight, you on the other hand are.

Re: Battlestar Galactica The Greatest Scif show? or Babylon 5

Garovorkin said:

...The intent was discuss the merits of Galactica vs B5 and it gotten away from the subject and its getting quite foolish....

Click to expand...

You're right, we have gone off topic and down a road that leads nowhere. Especially given that you are the creator of this thread, your call to return to topic is resonant.

Considering this is the B5.related forum, I'd like to second Garovorkin's request to get the thread back to its original topic - please try and keep this thread to anything relevant regarding BSG as compared to B5.

There are a number of BSG-specific threads in the Other Shows forum, where the good sides as well as the problems of BSG can be discussed (preferably without calling other members' personal tastes into question).

I also added a spoiler warning for BSG in the title of this thread, as it seems at least one episode of the current season has been covered in detail.

I won't pass judgment on where BGS falls until it's story is completely told. It has some really great parts to it, but also has plenty of things that really annoy me. The bottom line though, is that its writers still have an obligation to deliver a solid ending to the series, and if the mess that up, then it won't rank much higher on my list than Enterprise. (A series that had promise, had some independent great moments, but clearly lost track of itself along the way and the show suffered for it).

We still have to see where it stacks up, but I cant make that call until its done.

B5 will probably still be my #1 with Star Trek TOS right up there as well.
Farscape is in my Top 5 as well. Sometimes I think Firefly belongs in my Top 5, but other parts of me really have a tough time calling that show Science Fiction --- its really not IMO, so I leave it out of those sort of comparisons.

VancantLook and Kribu thanks. Thinker if you reading this understand that personally, I have no quarrel with you. Ive read your posts ,your level knowledge is most impressive, but you need to stop being so combative with people because they happen to not share your viewpoint or outlook.In the long run it just does not pay to alienate people, believe me on that issue I know what Im talking about. Back to the subject. I think that after the last first run episode of Galactica is broadcast, the show will go in syndication and probably very quickly disappear from the air wave, much like what happened with both Babylon 5 and Ds9. Shows with such large story arcs tend not to stay around long. this is one are where episodic shows tend to fare better.

Garovorkin said:

...Back to the subject. I think that after the last first run episode of Galactica is broadcast, the show will go in syndication and probably very quickly disappear from the air wave, much like what happened with both Babylon 5 and Ds9. Shows with such large story arcs tend not to stay around long. this is one are where episodic shows tend to fare better.

Click to expand...

Well, DS9 is still shown quite a bit on Spike, actually.

VacantLook I stand corrected, I forgot Ds9 was on Spike, then again I have not watched Spike in quite a while.

Sci-fi as a whole, no matter what the show may be or how good it may be, isn't a genre that is big in syndication after a few years have past. Outside of the sci-fi channel, or foreign equivalent, most sci-fi/fantasy shows are done after maybe two or three years of syndication.

That statement is true now, but it wasn't always that way. I grew up watching Sci-Fi on re-runs. Star Trek, Buck Rogers, Battlestar Galactica, Lost in Space, these were all shows that had been off the air for several years, but I caught them in syndication as a kid. Of course, those were different kind of sci-fi shows, being more primetime/family oriented.

It's also a large part of the major problem within our society, at least in the US. The death of the imagination as a good thing. People that are still into sci-fi/fantasy are viewed as geeks or a lesser part of society wasting their time with something frivolous. Kids are being told at younger and younger ages to get their head out of the sky and grow up to face the real world. TV is inundated with reality television and an overabundance of reality based dramas and even reality based comedies. Imagination is dying a very slow death, but it is dying.

Cell it's worse then that ,you kill imagination in the long run you kill the desire to learn new things, Kids growing up know a lot about technology and Games but damned little else,we are producing a generation that would rather not think much about anything. I have found that many new scifi/fantasy fans don't know the classics of both genres. Many don' Know who Alfred Bester is, He wrote The Demolished Man(first novel to win a Hugo) and The Star's My Destination Or Cordwainer Smith(Norstrillia,Rediscovery of Man) Robert E Howard(Conan)Clark Ashton Smith(Hyperboria, Posidonus)William Hope Hodgson( House On The Borderland written 1907 , James Branch Cabell comic fantasy novel Jurgen written 1919 and banned in Boston),Jack London's astral projection fantasy novel The Star Rover , Abram Merritt(The Moon Pool) and many others.They believe that if its old it isn't worth the time. On the television side there are a great many scif fans who have heard of B5 but never seen or never wanted to invest the time in it. Almost nobody remembers the Quatermass movies or serials, the most famous of which is Quatermass and the Pit, this wonderful precursors to the X Files. Cell if you read a good book or see a great movie or series, something you love , then educate people, tell the world, thats how you and others can make a difference. Sorry for getting off topic but this is the most important battle of all, that needs to be fought.

My own take.

We'll set aside the mechanical specifics and look at some general attributes that make for good lasting science fiction.

1. Do the characters have distinct personalities that will become recognizable culture cliches?
a. Johnny Nukem and speechifying at the drop of a hat.
b. Delenn preaches at every body.
c. Londo as schemer.
d. What do you want? Who are you?
e. G'kar and Londo as "two enemies who become friends".
f. Ivanova bosanova. {Oh come on don't tell me you don't know what this means?]

2. Do we have a recognizable story setting that we instantly recognize just from a visual cue.

a. Pylons and saucer, its got to be a Fed and this is Star Trek.
b. Fanhead hairstyle, we're looking at Babylon 5 .
c. "Danger Will Robinson!" {Okay, its an auditory cue, but you get the point}

3. Is there a story arc that we understand?
a. The arc in the Starfleet universe is the expansion of a pan-galactic "American" federation of species that started out as a cold war riff, and that eventually turned into a socialist preachy utopia, where you wind up with characters such as Captain Lameway [Janeway] and Captain Psycho [Sisko]. It gets bad at the end, but its fun to ridicule and you remember the bad stuff as well as the good for that reason..
b. The B5verse story arc is the understandable one of heroic space opera told for the first time in a more or less Jungian psychological backdrop. Amidst the exploding spaceships you have quite a psychological battle going on in the overminds of the Humans, the Centauri, the Narns, the Minbari, and other select aliens. The juxtaposition of order/chaos is blatantly obvious and ENTERTAINING. You remember this story because you FEEL it.

4. Then there are memorable stories within the stories that once you see them once you never forget.
a. Midnight on the Firing Line, Z'hadum
b The Year of Hell and The City on the Edge of Forever.

5. So I ask, what has GINO contributed to the collective culture bank?

a. Does it have a Kirk or a Londo?
b. Does it give you an instantly recognizable story frame?
c. Does it even leave you with some prime characteristic that prompts/cues a memory cascade of the series as a whole or in part?

Well?

T.

thinker2222 said:

b. Does it give you an instantly recognizable story frame?
c. Does it even leave you with some prime characteristic that prompts/cues a memory cascade of the series as a whole or in part
T.

Click to expand...

Unless there are dozens of different TV shows about the human race being chased by cylons and searching for Earth that I haven't heard of I think that the story will be remembered and recognised.

I agree with you on all of you points with regard to B5. I consider it the New gold standard of science fiction. With regard to trek I agree with many of your points.Yes trek by comparison a little preachy and stilled in terms of story and character development. In Trek , The next Gen and voyager at the end of every episode everything reset to zero no change no consequences, everyone got along just fine no character develpoment, bunch of dress dummy characters. not so in B5 and BSG and to fair extent Ds9. In those shows actions had future consequences for the characters later on. Yes Janeway was lame but she was far less lame then Geneve Bujold who bailed out of the series in the begining of its production.

Truth_Seeker said:

Unless there are dozens of different TV shows about the human race being chased by cylons and searching for Earth that I haven't heard of I think that the story will be remembered.

Click to expand...

The Alligator? Maybe, but the Phlying Phallus, I doubt it.

T.

thinker2222 said:

c. Does it even leave you with some prime characteristic that prompts/cues a memory cascade of the series as a whole or in part?

Click to expand...

The first series had the red light crossing the metal Cylon's head.

The Knight Rider car copied the design.