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uh-oh....this doesn't sound good.

FireFlower

New member
uh-oh....this doesn\'t sound good.

Long time reader, first time poster. I just sent this question to JMS on the newsgroup he posts to:

Suddenly I'm hearing rumors from people that there's trouble with your new movie.

A friend of mine told me that Warner's getting cold feet because they only want Blockbuster hits with big stars. Isn't Babylon 5 successful enough? I know you said the DVDs sold really well. Just because it's a TV show doesn't mean it won't be a hit. Are they talking to other studios? Anyways, my friend told me that the money folks are looking for movie stars to take the place of Bruce and Mira and the rest because they think nobody'll come see TV actors. That's dumb. He says that you don't want to change the actors and that's what's holding everything up. I'm glad to hear that but now there's the news about you filming in April. Does that mean everything's okay now? I don't think I want to see it without the stars I already know.

Please tell us!!!

Dani

I hope it get through the moderators soon.

Dani
 
Re: uh-oh....this doesn\'t sound good.

I am terribly interested to hear what "bug" your friend has in WB. I've seen similar claims elsewhere, but no basis for them other than the vague fear by fans that "WB" wants different actors. There are two reasons why I think this "fear" is more fan driven than based on actual knowledge:

1.) Warners would be stupid to recast established characters. Think about this point, Warners agrees to a movie based on DVD sales of the show. Warners wants to turn profit. Therefore, if the performance in the movie (which was completely based on the monetary return of the show) is not equal or better than the established reason for making the movie in the first place Warners loses the money they invested based on sales of the original product. If they know this before hand why may the movie in the first place. If they alienate their base nobody is going to see the movie. If they thought B5 could churn a profit on its own a movie would have already been made a long time ago.

2.) The writer and creator of Babylon 5 has a known track record of distain for changing actors. The most recent example is the death of Richard Biggs. A fan asked jms if Dr. Franklin will be recast to which he responded: NO! The few examples of where jms has recasted roles has been purely for the story, and even then no main characters have been ever been changed.

It is for these reasons that I do not believe that jms would ever enter into a venture that would required him to blow off an established actor for a “big name.” Plus, Warners knows that jms is this way. They have only worked together for ten years! So, where's your source?
 
Re: uh-oh....this doesn\'t sound good.

No offense FireFlower...but why the hell are you posting this here?

This isn't news. This isn't relevant information. This is you posting a question to JMS...WHICH HE HASNT REPONDED TO...about concerns YOU have about the new movie. Are they even founded concerns? You never cited where you got your information about WB getting cold feet.

This is really just speculation. It isnt even remotely news because no one of any credibilty has responded to it.

Hell, I could post something to JMS on his newsgroup saying "JMS, there are rumors about your new B5 movie containing scenes of hardcore pornography with Jenna Jameson. Why would you do that to your fans? Im really ashamed to be a B5 fan now."

That doesn't make what I posted any more fact than what you posted.
 
Re: uh-oh....this doesn\'t sound good.

For what it's worth, it tracks with things I've been hearing from former cast members and I've wondered about the possibility in a couple of posts. I believe it enought that I've tried to help Dani post to rastb5m.

As some of you know, I've made contact with a fair number of cast and even crew in the quest for my script collection. Dani's is the first corroboration I've seen for what I've been hearing. I've emailed her before.

Yeah, it would be incredibly stupid but I trust JMS to fight to protect his universe.
Jan
(recently posting in this name but mostly known here as JBonetati)
 
Re: uh-oh....this doesn\'t sound good.

Grossly irresponsible speculation on my part (but what else are messageboards for?):

If this is actually true, is there the slightest chance that the "Diane Baker" rumor is some sort of trial balloon, floating an idea of some sort of compromise between WB and JMS, whereby no roles are recast, but the central character is someone new, who could be played by a "Hollywood actor"?
 
Re: uh-oh....this doesn\'t sound good.

I'm sure JMS would walk out of TMOS if this story were to be true, and I'm sure WB isn't quite stupid enough to try and make TMOS without him. One thing the studio's have to get right with genre pictures is to get the fans onside, this would alienate B5 fans from the start. I'm sure if WB wanted big name stars they could just get JMS to write new roles.

Anyway the Lord of the Rings trilogy had no big name stars in, and that did quite well for WB as far as I remember :) WB is certainly not adverse to taking risks in this area.
 
Re: uh-oh....this doesn\'t sound good.

I'm sure JMS would walk out of TMOS if this story were to be true, and I'm sure WB isn't quite stupid enough to try and make TMOS without him. One thing the studio's have to get right with genre pictures is to get the fans onside, this would alienate B5 fans from the start. I'm sure if WB wanted big name stars they could just get JMS to write new roles.

If it's true, JMS has my support for pulling the plug. I don't want to see it.

Anyway the Lord of the Rings trilogy had no big name stars in, and that did quite well for WB as far as I remember :) WB is certainly not adverse to taking risks in this area.

That was actually Bob Shea at New Line Cinema who produced Lord of the Rings. Most folks thought he had lost his mind taking such a gamble. The stars weren't VERY big, but almost all of them were easily more established than the B5 cast.
 
Re: uh-oh....this doesn\'t sound good.

I realize it's a different country, but, Isn't Mira Furlan a Big Movie Star back home in the Slavic Countries? And LOST is an incredibly big show this year, which she has already been on one episode, and will be doing at least one or two more, so that's more exposure. Bruce Boxlietner has been in a ton of TV movies, so I don't think either one of them could be considered a small name. Add that with a Big name for Diane Baker, and how much more "star power" can be expected from 90% of all films released. If Londo and G'Kar have roles in it, it wouldn't really matter to the public at large (obviously it would to us B5 fanatics) who played the roles, as the actors aren't really recognizable in the makeup anyways.
 
Re: uh-oh....this doesn\'t sound good.

Not to mention that big name Hollywood stars routinely command up to $20m for a movie. Given that the expectation is for TMoS to have a budget well below $100m, it seems extremely unlikely that anyone would insist on blowing a significant portion of the budget on one single actor.
 
Re: uh-oh....this doesn\'t sound good.

Well, I've also done some checking before posting any response here or over at JMSNews on this (though I have posted on this subject prior to this over there and will share my thoughts from there here after I say this):

According to my source, this is a problem folks! WB has suddenly in the eleventh hour decided that TMoS isn't high-profile enough since it's roots are in TV. The financiers are, according to my source, looking for big named actors over JMS's objections because they don't think fans will come out to see TV actors in a big screen film. JMS is supposedly battling on their behalf, but my source tells me that things are coming down to the wire and that a decision will have to come soon...either replace the cast with big stars in the same roles or not.

Supposedly WB is also not considering it to be big enough and are in negotiations with other studios to distribute it.

My source tells me, they're sending out casting notices on main cast...word is to prove no firestorm will come from the fanbase if this gets out and thus shut JMS up.

This means we need to make ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN a shitstorm from HELL rises from the fans!

The word I'm getting is that it's turned into a battle of wills between the financiers/WB and JMS and that they think they're going to prove JMS wrong and win that way.

They think the fans and JMS will balk and let them have their way, since they think the fans don't care.

We have to prove them wrong folks!

Did B5 and JMS teach us nothing? The fight ain't over til it's over and that voices can be heard.

The Scapers did it. ST, Firefly, X-Files...all crossovers with little to- no-name casts. Yet, all but Firefly (which hasn't come out yet) were very successful...hell, ST with two casts.

Now word is that Farscape is going to the big screen.

We must let WB know, en masse, how we feel about even the suggestion or rumor of such changes.

We made them over 100 million in DVD sales...partly to "vote" for TMoS and help ensure it's being made!

I don't know about you, but I'll be damned if they're going to take my money then spit on me! Not just me but the original cast!

What a frelling insult!

Speak up and out! I learned that from being a gay man! And by God, this gay man will make sure that WB hears what he has to say, if I have to do it alone!

They need to hear that we're not going to stand for this, even in rumor, so they know we're behind the project and want JMS to say what's right! They need to know that even rumors of such things are NOT acceptable.

If it turns out to be a rumor, which I am assured it is NOT, then we've done no harm and reassured WB that the fans are ready to support JMS and B5 in a big way!

Come on, folks, let's get the word out!

I might have time to get the WB casting offices, features offices, etc., emails and snail mail addies today, but if someone beats me to it, then I won't be hurt in the least.

We voted once, now we need to make sure every vote has been counted!

If you all are concerned, then I would suggest the gathering of B5 fans. An outcry of fandom, telling them that we've been loyal, we've bought the DVD's and proven that we are here and ready to support TMoS in a big way.

We have to tell them, no casting changes...period. We want TMoS to be true B5. We will make sure it's a success, as long as they stay true to us, who've made all that money for them.

A write-in campaign, an email campaign, an outcry from fans around the world saying, "We want TMoS! We want the original cast! And we'll make it big if you do!" is worth our time.

Look what the SCAPERS and FIREFLY fans achieved, folks!

If this is true, or even if it's rumor, then it won't hurt to make our voices heard either way!!!!!!

Remind WB and TPTB that we're here, that our voice has made them millions, that we won't stand for this, that ST, X-files, SW (the OT and to some degree the PT), LOTR all were major successes with little to no star power.

It's the greatness and quality of the story not the names of the stars that will put butts in the seats.

Besides, they have to be reminded that financially, they cannot loose here! There is simply no way with DVD sales making up more the 3 to 4 times the money on films than box office does now. Even Chronicles of Riddick, as badly as that bombed, is most likely going to get its sequel now because the DVD sales have been good.

No...we must not sit by and allow this. We must stand united with JMS and the cast! JMS is fighting for them and us from what my source says, we must fight along side!

He and they have never abandoned us...we simply cannot abandon them!
CE
 
Re: uh-oh....this doesn\'t sound good.

Anyone who thinks that fans of a show won't see a film if the actors from that show are in the film instead of some "big screen actors" prove they don't have a frelling clue about what a fan is. I don't know if there would be a bigger way to prove how out of touch they are than to do something like this.
 
Re: uh-oh....this doesn\'t sound good.

Hmmm, CE, tell us how you really feel!

Frankly, if the original cast is canned in favor of big names, I think it would be easy as pie to organize a boycott. And if a letter arrives in the WB's mailbox with 200,000 signatures on it declaring to boycott all showings and all merchandise, I think they'd notice...

But let's see how JMS responds to this. I won't support a preemptive boycott until we've gotten some actual news. Otherwise we just look hysterical.
 
Re: uh-oh....this doesn\'t sound good.

No one is saying boycott. We're saying we need to let WB know, now, that we will not stand for our cast being replaced.

The word needs to get out! We need to make sure that JMS is backed up.

CE
 
Re: uh-oh....this doesn\'t sound good.

Yea what I don't get is that if this whole thing is true, why isn't there a mix between the original cast for their roles, and a new character or two with larger name "MOVIE" stars.

Bear in mind folks that in some ways WB's concerns are valid. Bruce and Mira may be big name TV stars...but this isn't TV its movies, and its totally different. Yes the B5 fans will go see the movie, but their concern isnt about that, its two fold:

1) Are there enough B5 fans that will go see the movie to make this financially viable?

2) How do we capture people who aren't B5 fans to go out and see this movie? Are the stars in just the TV series enough to do it?

Out of them all I think Bruce is the most widely recognized as he has been in a lot of TV over the years, but I'm certain the youngest generation will have no clue who he is, or the rest of the cast.

Either way, I am in support of JMS not wanting to re-cast this. I do find it irritating though that WB isn't taking into account enough the fact that Firefly is being made into a movie with ITS original cast...and that series only lasted half a season before it was CANCELLED. The rumors about Farscape going to the big screen should also calm them down a bit I would imagine.

Hope this works out. Either way, why does this always have to happen to B5? :)
 
Re: uh-oh....this doesn\'t sound good.

I don't think statements of boycott are appropriate at this point, but perhaps statements via letters that in the creation of a Babylon 5 theatrical film, we fans most definitely want the actors we know from the show to portray the characters they made us fond of and not some replacement actors.

If some behind the film think we fans don't care about the cast of the show, our letting them know that indeed we do and very much so would be be appropriate.
 
Re: uh-oh....this doesn\'t sound good.

1) Are there enough B5 fans that will go see the movie to make this financially viable?

Being that much of the willingness to go ahead with a theatrical film is based on how well the season DVDs of the show have sold, I would think that that is enough of a notice as to how well a theatrical movie would minimally do financially.

And Recoil, you bring up a very good point in that Firefly is being made into a film with its tv cast despite its lack of time of airing on tv. If we fans go about writing letters to those concerned about our wanting the cast of Babylon 5 to be holding the roles they brought to life in the series if those characters are in the film, that it's being done with Firefly could be a very poinient point to make.
 
Re: uh-oh....this doesn\'t sound good.

They think the fans and JMS will balk and let them have their way, since they think the fans don't care.

One word answer - Thunderbirds.

http://www.thunderbirdsmovie.uk.com/
and
http://www.thunderbirdsonline.com/site/

This is the fate of the film.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/3593664.stm

"He said it may have failed because audiences who remembered the TV series were too old to watch a children's version."

The public was willing to listen to the music.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/4069399.stm

"Pop group Busted's theme song for the Thunderbirds movie has been voted the UK's Record of the Year by the public."

In the film actors replaced the original puppets. The producer would have probably have gotten away with this. He then made the mistake of changing the roles from the original characters to children. The fans wanted Thunderbirds, we did not want Spy kids on Tracey Island.


As the above demonstrates Sci-Fi fans can organise a boycott very easily and cheaply. We are willing to pay to watch shows from the 1960s but mess around with the franchise and we will stay away.

New films like Starsky and Hutch survived replacement of the actors because the fans accepted the original stars are past retirement age. Where as the Babylon 5 serial was made only 5 years ago. I cannot remember the names of the replacement actors.

p.s. Does anyone have the size of the DVD sales for the Thunderbird episodes and the new film?
 
Re: uh-oh....this doesn\'t sound good.

The guest star can be a real movie star if Warner Brothers wants to double the budget. To pay for this he/she will also have to triple the number of customers. The Sci-Fi fans will open the film, so any star will have to bring in the repeat viewers.

I have heard similar rumours about the film of Friends and that show created some movie stars.
 
Re: uh-oh....this doesn\'t sound good.

WB has suddenly in the eleventh hour decided that TMoS isn't high-profile enough since it's roots are in TV. The financiers are, according to my source, looking for big named actors over JMS's objections because they don't think fans will come out to see TV actors in a big screen film. JMS is supposedly battling on their behalf, but my source tells me that things are coming down to the wire and that a decision will have to come soon...either replace the cast with big stars in the same roles or not.
*IF* all this is true (and I won't believe a word until JMS confirms it or shoots it down), then WB is ignoring one HUGE example that proves them wrong: Star Trek.

NONE of the original crew had big-screen careers before The Motion Picture. They made six movies and billions of dollars in ticket sales, VHS/DVD sales, and merchandise. At the time of The Motion Picture, Trek was regarded much as B5 is today -- a cult hit.

If we can't have the same actors playing the same roles, I don't want the movie to get made.
 
Re: uh-oh....this doesn\'t sound good.

I, once again, have to ask, how much star power would they need? Most movies only have one or two big names in them. Very few movies are like Ocean's 11, with a large cast of Big names. Surely, if this is all true, simply having this one new character being a big name is enough.
 
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