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Old March 27th 20, 23:15   #31
Springer
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Re: Star Trek Picard Series

Just watched the finale, I have some mixed feelings towards it.

[Spoilers, so be warned]

I didn't like the silly Romulan myth and the tentacled aliens that were coming through the portal. In fact, I've not liked the Romulans at all in this series – they don't feel like Romulans to me. So I guess what Narek was saying is not that it was prophecy, but that history repeats and that android civilisations always call down those android overlords.

I also didn't like the lazy starship design - the new Starfleet design (Curiosity-class, apparently) was cool enough, can see it as an evolution of the Enterprise E, but would have hoped to have seen some variety in both fleets.

I really hated Rios calling Nerak a 'snakehead', I think he used that terminology last episode too. It was used as a derogatory term in Babylon 5, I certainly do not expect to hear it in Star Trek (and for Rios to not even get called out for using it).

Can someone remind me where that bit of magic technology came from? I have no recollection but I guess it must have been an earlier episode?

On the other hand, I liked the character interactions, I liked that the conclusion wasn't a big space battle but an appeal to the better angels of Soji's nature. Narek teaming up with Rios, Elnor and Raffi was something I didn't expect, so that was cool. Really liked Picard and Data's final meeting, I thought that was lovely, and Riker showing up leading the fleet made me smile (though it did make little sense for him to be the one leading it unless he'd made overtures to Starfleet after Picard departed his planet).

The season has been a bit of a bumpy ride, and not quite the fantastic television event I'd hoped for, but I think half of the episodes have been good, two or three okay, and only one or two have been bad IMO. I'd give the season overall a B-.

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Originally Posted by Ubik View Post
Characters are mysteriously emotional about people they barely know! The entire crew have barely had the chance to get to know each other, yet they are all VERY upset about Picard.
Raffi and Elnor have history with Picard going back years. They had a right to be emotional. Rios was melancholic about it, Seven didn't seem to much care (I'd love to know how she first met Picard). Soji and Agnes were obviously busy doing something about it.

Quote:
Also, Data and Picard were never that close and the whole data thing feels weirdly tacked on.
I think the emphasis on their friendship was more of a movie thing – First Contact and Nemesis in particular. Though rewatching TNG, I think Picard gets as close to Data as he does any of the crew, but more in a father figure way.

I think what haunted Picard isn't just that Data died, it's that he died to save Picard. I liked that Picard called Data sacrificing himself the most 'Data' thing he'd ever done. I always saw it as the most human thing Data ever did, and seeing as he wanted to be human, it felt right for his character progression (and yet it also felt wrong as I hated that they killed Data).

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I feel like they could have opted for a 2 hour pilot movie that throws the disparate characters together, then we get proper 'episodes' on the ship.
I do agree with this sentiment, but it seems the way of the TV world today to stretch stories out over endless episodes, I don't think Picard is the only one afflicted by this. I was just watching Confessions and Lamentations today (I know, topical) and I really marvelled at how JMS got so much story into 43 minutes. If that had been made today the plague story would have been stretched over a season and we'd have all been interminably bored by it.

Last edited by Springer; March 27th 20 at 23:19.
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Old March 28th 20, 03:41   #32
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Re: Star Trek Picard Series

With all this extra time I now find on my hands I subscribed to the free week trial and have crammed all of 'Picard and 'Discovery into slightly over two days.

I have a lot if the same sentiments that you have all shared. I'm not really sure what my expectations were going into it, but I can say that overall I was satisfied. I too was confused as to the amount of emotion several off these characters felt for each other in so short a time. Some things here and there seemed a little too forced.

It'll be curious to see what the arc next season will be. It sounds like Guinan will return as Stewart invited Goldberg to join. Maybe next season will finally give us the one answer we've been dying to know for nearly 31 years...whatever happened to Dr. Pulaski? 😅
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Old March 31st 20, 08:57   #33
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Re: Star Trek Picard Series

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Originally Posted by Sinclair View Post
With all this extra time I now find on my hands I subscribed to the free week trial and have crammed all of 'Picard and 'Discovery into slightly over two days.

I have a lot if the same sentiments that you have all shared. I'm not really sure what my expectations were going into it, but I can say that overall I was satisfied. I too was confused as to the amount of emotion several off these characters felt for each other in so short a time. Some things here and there seemed a little too forced.

It'll be curious to see what the arc next season will be. It sounds like Guinan will return as Stewart invited Goldberg to join. Maybe next season will finally give us the one answer we've been dying to know for nearly 31 years...whatever happened to Dr. Pulaski? ��
Springer, 'dI be really curious to hear what you make of Discovery. Please keep us updated and post your thoughts as you watch. I think I hated the opening episodes of Disco and then really warmed to it as it went along. I was a bit put off by the fact that they felt they had to open Disco with loads of action and 'spolsions to appease the audience. When it chilled out a bit, it got a a LOT better. And, Tilly, I really grew to love Tilly as a character.

I think you may have gone easier on Picard than me, I just struggled with the overall arc being so disjointed. I guess this is a warning to us all that going back to beloved characters does not guarantee quality.
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Old April 3rd 20, 14:33   #34
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Re: Star Trek Picard Series

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I don't think it's fair to say, for example, that it's okay for there to be stories about Picard being traumatised by his Borg experience, and lauding the episodes that deal with that, and then saying there shouldn't be stories about other characters experiencing their own trauma.
Well good becuase that's not what I was saying. Riker & Troy having trauma was not wrong on its own. I was making the point that why is EVERY single friggin person in this show messed up and traumatized.

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I'm not sure why you bring up Kurtzman the show runner and chief writer is Pulitzer Prize winning writer Michael Chabon.
Huh? I know that.. So why are you saying that? I never said he was the sole writer lol. The ONLY time I mention Kurtzman is when I was talking about the video I posted which presumably you didn't bother to watch hence why you've misunderstood my comment. Clearly they BOTH forgot inner light lol!

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(in the Inner Light he didn't raise a family he was experiencing someone else's memories of doing so, not the same thing).
What?? Oh man you're way off on that one. 100% disagree. If he was simply living someone else's memories he would not have acted as himself, remembered the Enterprise & his former life and tried to escape during his 'life' there. Once again I'm guessing you did NOT watch the video I linked to in that statement as it shows footage where even Picard disagrees with you haha. He says (in another episode roughly a season later after Inner light) "I lived a lifetime on that planet. I had a wife and children, and a grandchild... and it was ABSOLUTELY REAL to me." Here is again for you to not watch haha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vaj_ypAbN_Q

Of course there are so many episodes in classic Trek that are so bad haha, no argument there. However they were usually surrounded by a lot of good episodes and overall a much better show.

Picard being only 10 episodes long means their stinkers need to be really few and far between and sadly that's not been the case IMO. 3 episodes I thought were garbage, 4 were so so leaving 3 that were pretty good. Hopefully season 2 will be a vast improvement much like s2 Disco was. You and I clearly have very different tastes as I loved DS9.. yeah sure it wasn't B5 but it was bloody good and is my favourite classic Trek show despite me starting as a kid with TNG & TOS in the late 80s long before DS9 came along.


Anyway.. time for my final Episode 10 rant.. which you'll probably 'love' even more haha. :P


[SPOILER]
Quote:
Kinda glad its all over as in these last few weeks it felt like I was just waiting for them to find new ways to disappoint me lol. Now that it's done I don't have to worry about it lol.

So.. that last episode.. once again we've got some good things but mostly things that annoyed me lol..

I enjoyed the Picard noble sacrifice to save Soji (from her fears) scene.. tugged on the old heart strings a bit so well done there. Was also nice to see Picard flying a ship and being himself a bit more instead of the usual helpless old man in the back seat stuff. Liked the Picard maneuver (the ship one not the shirt one lol) reference too..

Sure enough my prediction of Picard becoming an android, or more accurately an organic synthetic came true. Felt a bit weird though as lets face it, it's kinda like cloning in that they made an electronic copy of his mind meaning the Picard we know and love has just actually died lol. Not really sure how to feel about that other than it sucks a bit.

People who may remember my earlier posts here will know that my hope was that this series was all about resurrecting Data and undoing the damage Nemesis did. I was almost willing to accept all the other BS that had happened if that was the target. So I really hoped the golum would be for him and not a quick Picard resurrection. So when Picard bought it I knew what was coming...

But then he woke up in the simulation and there was data saying exactly what I had posted in previous posts that I'd hoped would happen. They combined those residual Data memories Maddox had generated for his synths with B4's backup of Data's brain to make a pretty much complete resurrected Data (from the moment he did the transfer a day or so before his death in Nemesis). I was so excited! The moment I'd been waiting for! But of course this is a Michael Chabon show and he wants to make Star Trek and its fans as miserable as possible lol so naturally a matter of seconds later this amazing resurrection that so many of us had dreamed of happening for almost 20 damn years was shown to be nothing more than a tease because Data asks to die. Picard then mercy kills him just like 7 of 9 mercy killed Icheb. Michael watched his father suffer & die slowly on life support while writing these new shows which is a horrible thing to go through (I dread having to go through something like that with my mother) and unfortunately all this stuff is probably him creatively dealing with that pain but unfortunately he's dealing with it using the Star Trek universe and characters loved by millions people. I get it, they wanted to give a data 'beautiful death' instead of the cheap one he got in Nemesis hence why I've seen people out there touched and happy with it. But as someone who pretty much was dying (pun not intended lol) to watch this series believing it was all gonna be about Data's resurrection I feel cheated. To tease him being back like that only to take him away just makes me wanna hop over to Michael's twitter and throw some 4 letter words his way (I won't though cause I don't wanna be a d*ck lol). Judging by this article he wouldn't care anyway and for those excited that he's not the main guy behind season 2 well guess what, that article confirms he's written 2 eps and also brainstormed the other 8 for season 2.. so yeah expect more attempts to make us miserable (if we watch) in the future lol.

I wish they could have brought Data back.. yes I'm not stupid.. I know Brent doesn't exactly look like Data anymore hence the mountain of makeup and weird camera angles of him sitting or standing to hide his belly making it half impossible to have him around all the time. However they could have brought him back and then have him go back to starfleet or earth or go on his own ventures or something. You know just send him off into the galaxy with happy "All Good Things" like moment to finish his ark. Let us fans think of him living on forever going on adventures and continuing his question to evolve. Let that be the last thing we see of him.. not him dying AGAIN. The face growing old (doesn't make any sense unless they programmed the event) and a virtual duplicate Picard in the red uniform standing over him, even though Picard had been extracted already (another copy lol??) all painted to give a beautiful death triggering an emotional response that makes some forget the weirdness and lack of science and sense behind it lol. However there's nothing stopping them from resurrecting Data again so screw you Michael I'm going to choose to believe that Dr Soon Jr Jr Jr Jr being the sneaky guy he is backed up another copy of Data's mind, waited for Picard to leave then stuck Data in another golum and now he's out there living happily every after lol. Picard's "my gain is your loss line" implies Soong Jr Jr Jr Jr can't make another golum but get stuffed.. Maddox did the brains and Soong Jr Jr Jr Jr did the bodies, nothing stopping him from making more lol.

Anyway back to Picard's death and resurrection wtf was with them rush skipping over most of the casts reaction to him being back again. Once again Michael's story telling has us in pain watching everyone cry for like 10 damn minutes and then doesn't bother to cover everyone seeing him alive again except for Dr Death, Soong Jr Jr Jr Jr and Soji. Literally straight back on the ship like nothing happened lol.

Speaking of that final ship scene I've seen some people confusingly posting "are Raffi and 7 of 9 lovers?" well that 2nd article I linked I linked to above has Michael confirming it.. action jackson 7 of 9 had a thing with that crime lord chick she vaporized and she's got a thing with Raffi or whatever her name is (I just cannot remember these new cast member names haha), so expect more of the stuff we've seen from Discovery in Picard season 2 (poor Chakotay haha). I'll leave that for others to debate the merits of all that as it doesn't really bother me, other than to say I find their 'all or nothing' approach a bit weird as does this mean the other shows coming (ST Section 31, ST Pike, ST Lower Decks) will do the same?

Oh and speaking of 7 of 9.. how did the Romulan evil chick get back on the cube to fight 7 of 9??? she left the cube with the fleet several eps ago didn't she???

I saw some article a few days ago which I can't seem to find now sorry but it talked about plans for a crossover series that would involve casts members from all the different new trek shows.. pretty much the marvel avengers of new star trek lol. I really don't know how to feel about that lol. I mean if this had been 30 years ago and we had Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway and Archer and other cast members all in one big crossover event series that would have been epic (hell I think there's a popular Novel series out there that sort of did that isn't here?) but massive crossover series with new trek people.. I'm a bit meh.. but hey ya never know lol.

Anyway back to the Picard finale.. the whole fleet stand off didn't really excite me much at all (other than Picards noble sacrifice I mentioned earlier).. we saw those damn space flowers you saw me moaning about last time again haha, then they used that 'magical plot hole device' to generate duplicate Dr death faces and then the ships all with warp core illusions. Come on man this a advanced Romulan fleet, not those idiot half primitive Kazon in the Delta quadrant that fell for voyagers holograms but anyway.. this all lead to a rather amazing sequence where the evil commodore half Vulcan chick just kept preparing to fire and retargeting.. I think after the 5th or 6th time I actually yelled out (no BS I kid you not) at the TV "STOP PREPARING AND JUST FIRE THE F******** WEAPONS AT SOMETHING ALREADY!!!" hahahaha.

Then Riker shows up to give us some fan service. Kinda cool but once again just like with Soong Jr Jr Jr Jr 's reveal in the prev episode the delivery just.. felt.. wrong! Urgh. I mean I know he said he's on the active service list still but he's been retired for years and they just give him command of a huge fleet right off the bat, no admirals needed lol? They wouldn't even give Picard a crappy old science vessel but they'll give Riker a friggin fleet lol! I expected the admiral who swears a lot to be in charge of it to be honest. But hey's there's some fan service to be given here and I guess I should be happy Michael didn't try to kill him off too lol! I've seen people on the internet making fun of the obvious CGI background behind him too.. I can see why, as it doesn't look any better than the ones in the fan film Star Wreck, a movie made by a bunch of Finnish nerds in their bedrooms 20years ago lol (great film though haha). If we're wrong and that's a redressed discovery set or something then boy did they mess that up as it really looks fake lol.

And what the hell was going on with all the ships????? The entire romulan fleet was made out of 1 ship design plus a special capital command ship. These guys lost their homeworld and the vast majority of their population yet apparently they can afford to throw out all their old ships (except for that 22nd century Rom ship in ep 4 lol) and have a brand spanking new fleet lol. I mean this was the PERFECT opportunity to give more fan service and fill the fleet with old Valdors and D'deridex's.

Copy and paste a lot of that for Riker's fleet too. He warped in with 200 friggin ships that look the same.. what the hell!! When I think back to the giant federation fleets used in the Dominion war that were filled with old ships.. by then excelsiors would have been about 90 years old (at least the design anyway) and reliants and saratogas would have been over 110 years old. So why not stick some old galaxys, sovereigns and defiants in this fleet??

For a show that has a budget the old trek shows could only dream of I'm amazed that they literally built 2 giant fleets of the same ships using copy & paste.. Also was it just me or did the ships also look rather fake CGI looking.. they must have accidentally blown the budget out and run out of money.. that has to the be the reason for calling it in surely? The CGI DS9 fleets looked better than this for christ sake. This video pretty much confirms it lol.

Anyway then he just left... a dying Picard is like "oh yeah I can handle it from here Will".. and Wills like "sure bro.. I'll take all these ships we had to pull from vital missions and just turn around after being here for all 5 minutes" lol. If I was the Vulcan commodore chick I would have said "hey the federation is abandoning the planet again lets turn around and blow sh*t up before they come back again.. EVERYONE PREPARE TO FIRE SOME MORE!!!" lol.. Someone that obsessed aint gonna care about the treaty of Algeron. Also she's responsible for the deaths of everyone on Mars and most of the Romulan homeworld (by destroying the rescue fleet).. but nah its cool you can fly off lol.

Oh well.. I could pick at a bunch of other things but I'll stop complaining haha.. time to move on! I'll probably still cop the hater title from some people who loved it but like I said before normally I love all scifi and am super tolerant and am often the one taking on the haters lol but this show (much like the new main star wars films) just rubbed me the wrong way from ep5 onwards.. I guess its because these characters that I grew up with mean a lot to me and I don't like seeing them having to run the Michael Chabon gantlet of death and misery.

At this stage I now actually prefer Discovery over Picard. Probably because they're not screwing with my beloved childhood characters as much haha which means I can tolerate more plot and technology gaffes. I thought they handled Spock and Pike pretty well in s2 and it really made the show so much better having them and the Enterprise there. So I worry a bit about Disco s3 as they won't have those improvements anymore.. however I'm super excited about the ST Pike show. At least they listened to the fans on that one!
[/SPOILER]

Last edited by Blake00; April 3rd 20 at 14:38.
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Old April 3rd 20, 16:38   #35
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Re: Star Trek Picard Series

Hey! I wasn't having a go, just querying a few of your points, just as you have queried mine :-)

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Well good becuase that's not what I was saying. Riker & Troy having trauma was not wrong on its own. I was making the point that why is EVERY single friggin person in this show messed up and traumatized.
Were Riker and Troi really 'messed up'? It seemed to me they were still fully functional adults who had learned to manage their grief and deal with it, which is pretty much what Roddenberry said 24th century humans were able to do. Most humans do have to go through trauma at some point in their lives.

But I do feel this is being over-egged. Of the cast, was anyone other than Raffi really 'messed up'? I guess Rios had his issues that he had to confront but he wasn't that messed up. Maybe Seven too but she's been having issues ever since Voyager, in terms of reintegrating into humanity.

Quote:
Huh? I know that.. So why are you saying that? I never said he was the sole writer lol. The ONLY time I mention Kurtzman is when I was talking about the video I posted which presumably you didn't bother to watch hence why you've misunderstood my comment. Clearly they BOTH forgot inner light lol!
No sorry, I didn't watch the video. My apologies if I misunderstand you. It's just I see so much hate for Discovery and Picard on the Internet and it's all aimed at Kurtzman, even when it's not his fault, like he's the devil incarnate or something, and it seems like a lazy criticism. Again, my apologies for misinterpreting.

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Quote:
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(in the Inner Light he didn't raise a family – he was experiencing someone else's memories of doing so, not the same thing).
What?? Oh man you're way off on that one. 100% disagree. If he was simply living someone else's memories he would not have acted as himself, remembered the Enterprise & his former life and tried to escape during his 'life' there. Once again I'm guessing you did NOT watch the video I linked to in that statement as it shows footage where even Picard disagrees with you haha. He says (in another episode roughly a season later after Inner light) "I lived a lifetime on that planet. I had a wife and children, and a grandchild... and it was ABSOLUTELY REAL to me." Here is again for you to not watch haha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vaj_ypAbN_Q
Well, it is a while since I last watched The Inner Light – I don't actually like the episode – but wasn't the plot that the alien probe transmitted the memories into Picard's brain so he could experience them? It might have felt like he was living them, but it was somebody else's life, who had really existed, that he was re-living, wasn't it?

Quote:
3 episodes I thought were garbage, 4 were so so leaving 3 that were pretty good. Hopefully season 2 will be a vast improvement much like s2 Disco was. You and I clearly have very different tastes as I loved DS9.. yeah sure it wasn't B5 but it was bloody good and is my favourite classic Trek show despite me starting as a kid with TNG & TOS in the late 80s long before DS9 came along.

Anyway.. time for my final Episode 10 rant.. which you'll probably 'love' even more haha. :P
We're pretty much on the same lines here! I rated Picard as 2 episodes I thought were bad (episodes 5 and 9), 3 were okay and 5 I thought were good. None of the episodes were as good as the best episodes of TOS, TNG or DS9. The ending was okay. I'd like to see less swearing - I think you should be able to watch Star Trek with children, without having to worry about F-bombs being dropped left, right and centre.

And I agree with everything you said about Data's second death, although I did enjoy seeing Data again and his conversation with Picard.

Overall I was a little bit disappointed in Picard, it didn't quite feel like the prestige TV it was aiming to be. That in itself raises a question: will a Trek series ever consistently reach the level of writing that you might associate with Mad Men or GoT or Breaking Bad? But, I just try and keep my expectations tempered so I don't get overly disappointed. Everything is black or white these days, people either think something is absolutely terrible or absolutely amazing and there's no room for anything in between, when in fact most things are found in between those two extremes. It just raises my hackles and causes me to speak out against it as it's really polarising.

And I do like DS9 well enough. I like all Trek! (Well, not the JJ Abrams movies, but everything else I like).

Anyway, season 3 of Discovery starts soon, shall we just make this the general Star Trek thread?

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Old April 6th 20, 10:16   #36
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Re: Star Trek Picard Series

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Anyway, season 3 of Discovery starts soon, shall we just make this the general Star Trek thread?
Why not. I am totally on board for S3 of Disco, having quite enjoyed S2.

I did recently watch 'What you leave behind' and it made me nostalgic for DS9. Whilst the show took a few seasons to really find its feet, I think it's up there with the best Trek. I like that it took chances, and always felt the comparisons to B5, and vice-versa were unfair.

Probably one of the strongest casts too. And, I could watch Nana Visitor all day. Very easy on the eye.

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Old April 6th 20, 19:25   #37
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Re: Star Trek Picard Series

I'm all for making this an all Trek thread. I'm looking forward to the next season of Discovery although I may cancel my membership and subscribe once it's closer to the season's end.

I think the main thing that drew me more to Discovery was when Pike was introduced. Ever since I first saw The Cage years ago I've always wanted to see and know more about him and his Enterprise. It sounds like the series featuring him is a go for CBS. Hopefully they can get Mount, Peck and Romijn all signed. Assuming they keep Boyce as the doctor it'll be interesting to see who they cast in his role.
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Old July 5th 20, 15:54   #38
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Re: Star Trek Picard Series

Yeah I'm with you guys on that! I thought Discovery season 1 was okay but there were many things that annoyed me. Season 2 was a huge improvement for me however that was mainly due to the additional cast members playing Pike, Spock and Number One on the enterprise, there was still some silly stuff (lazy writing plot hole things as usual) that annoyed me though. Season 3 loses those great additions so I fear it'll disappoint me again lol. My love of the Disco season 2 Enterprise content of course also leaves me super excited for Star Trek Strange New Worlds (aka the Star Trek Pike show fans demanded heh) as they've said it will be a more traditional episodic Star Trek adventure show on the Enterprise! So hopefully they can't screw that up too much... although there's some rumour (possibly BS) out there that it's also going to have a young bisexual Kirk running about in the show so read into that what you will lol!!

Back to good old Picard.. I've decided I'm not going to call it that anymore now. To me this show shall now be known as 'Patrick Stewart Goes To Space' (PSGTS for short) as there really isn't much Star Trek or Picard in it lol!!! I've been waiting for the 'Critical Drinker' to review PSGTS as I've become an fan of his after seeing his Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker reviews on those cluster****s. Sure enough in the video below you can see he hates it and he talks about Picard himself being rather useless just like I talked about in my episode reviews earlier in this thread. Yes I know hating on stuff is kind of his gimmick haha but he makes good points that match a lot of my previously posted thoughts.

This is Patrick Stewart Goes To Space!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsmqcLv8Q-4

And this is Star Trek Picard baby!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKZQnkY2fXk

.
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Old September 10th 20, 20:23   #39
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Re: Star Trek Picard Series

Since this is the most recent Trek discussion I am posting this question...

What is the biggest fan discussion board for Trek?* I have made posts in the B5 Trading card thread, but now I am looking for some Trek Trading card info.* So does anyone know the best source to ask Trek fans that info?

Your Humble Looney.....
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Old September 11th 20, 03:08   #40
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Re: Star Trek Picard Series

I wish I could help you but I don't know. This is really the only board I ever get on.
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