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Old February 23rd 20, 11:52   #21
Blake00
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Re: Star Trek Picard Series

Episode 4 seen (belated).. WE'RE OFF!:

[SPOILER]
Quote:
Well things have finally taken off! Enjoying the fact we're back in space.. loved the look of the Romulan refugee colony (particularly in the flashback sequences) with the giant 'world tree' background, although in the opening planet shot I wish we'd seen the Enterprise E approaching (considering they made some interesting modifications to the D I'd be interested to see what they do with the E). Backstory of the Romulan Samurai dude & his history with Picard was interesting, although Picard now walking around with a Elf looking dude that slices off heads feels a bit weird lol, but no doubt they'll be some big fun action bits with him down the track (which will aggravate oldschool trek purists to no end I'm sure haha).

Enjoyed the space battle, sure enough it was a classic 22nd century Romulan Bird of Prey (nice tip of hat to old Trek), retrofitted for lawless system warlord related activities lol. Interesting to see all these different hologram crew member variants captain Chris has. 7 of 9 has arrived! Will be very interesting to see how much they delve into her past and backstory post Voyager return. Also the holodeck stuff explains why she's in Patrick's 'home' in the trailers. I know people were complaining/making fun of the Picard sword scene in the original trailer, but it was fine, they even made him took kinda tough before he did the expected 'I'm not fighting you/playing your games' thing. Although his comment about having bad knees annoyed me, I don't care if you're 95yrs old, it's 24th century, people aren't gonna have 'bad knees' lol (we're already getting into 3D printing/replicating joints & cartilage now so it's only a matter of time), would rather they just continue to try and hide any difficulties RL Patrick might have, although I still maintain he seems to zip around just fine in real life on talk shows and stuff though lol.

Anyway we're already off to another planet in the teaser for the next ep so things are definitely moving along now lol! Although I'm a little worried about all that silly dress up stuff.. I swear to god if the next ep is like the Casino planet sequence in Ryan Johnson's cr*ptastic Star Wars film and black eye patch gangsta Picard is throwing dice with cheesy overly excited cgi aliens I'm gonna throw my Tv lol.

Oh and I'm probably off the mark with the Lore theory previously posted.. sounds like they're going for something bigger.. harbinger of doom stuff lol!
[/SPOILER]

Guess I better hurry up and watch Ep 5 now instead of reading comments as that's just asking for spoilers haha.

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Last edited by Blake00; February 26th 20 at 14:41.
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Old February 26th 20, 14:40   #22
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Re: Star Trek Picard Series

Yeah.. episode 5.. wow.. If people here disliked it you don't have to worry about me arguing with you on this one guys. As this episode broke me too, or more precisely it broke my enjoyment of the show. I didn't enjoy that at all. I thought maybe if I sleep on it I'd feel better but nope, today I'm even grumpier about it haha. Up until now I've only had little nitpicks and have really enjoyed show and have defended it when people have complained about it "not feeling like star trek" but there was next to nothing Star Trek feeling about Ep 5. Those people who complained about past eps not being star trek are gonna looooooove this one lol. I don't wanna walk away from a Star Trek episode feeling frustrated and miserable. When they played the exciting trailer for the next ep and all the cool Borg stuff at the end I didn't even give s***. I was like.. whatever. They're gonna have to work hard in the next few eps to undo the damage that one just did. I can only hope that they had to go that dark and callous to setup the audience to be brought back to the light and happy ending lol. But I can't help but think that if it turned me off that badly then all those people out there who's really not been that into the new show and were barely holding on will probably be like "stuff this!" and be done with it after seeing that ep lol.

[SPOILER]
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For starters the acting felt a bit weird and wooden in this ep. Picard & 7 scenes felt weird, felt more like the actors were catching up more than the characters haha. 7 felt a little too different and Patrick didn't feel very 'Picardy'. His french gangster over acting rouse was funny but just didn't feel like something Picard would do, felt like I was watching one of Patrick's stage plays lol. For a French born character his french accent was pretty bad haha!

Can't remember what forum I was talking in but there was a guy who was all annoyed about how upset Raffi was about loosing her security clearance lol, well he's gonna love this ep and it pretty much says she turned into a alco & drug addict and messed up her family after that incident lol. Messed up drug addicts and alcoholics on earth, I'm sure Gene would love that lol. But hey I'm sure she'll have her recovering addict redemption story a happy ending with her dr son at some point and people will wonder if they're watching an episode of Chicago Med & not Star Trek lol.

But lets get to the real jewel of the episode.. I liked Voyager a lot but its not my favourite old trek show, probably more 3rd fav behind TNG & DS9. So considering how much this ep annoyed me I feel bad for all the super Voyager fans out there. You're NOT in for a good time here guys, I REALLY do feel bad for you guys and say sorry. Pretty much straight off the bat poor old (now grown up) Borg kid Icheb is utterly and brutally tortured/dissected and then murdered. Obviously the former was by the 'bad guys' but the later was by his Borg mum 7 of 9! Yes that's right, die hard voyager fans who love 7 of 9 and have been waiting for her return will literally get to see her shoot her own adopted son in the first 20 seconds of seeing her lol. He does the whole "im too far gone, put me out of my misery" thing everyone's seen a million times and she obliges. Get f****** mate! I get it, he's probably missing a few vital cybernetic organs but if he bleeds out or dies on route so be it, but at least try to throw him over your shoulder and carry your sons ass out of there. I mean I'm sure she didn't exactly have a nice state of the art medical bay next door ready to go or a big starship to beam up to but still it.. just.. felt.. wrong. Oh and apparently she just left him there too giving the black market guys EXACTLY what they wanted anyway as the crime lord chick brags later in the ep about dissecting him. Wtf?????

But don't worry Voyager fans there's more character assassination coming for your enjoyment haha. 7 of 9 is definitely not the one you know anymore lol.. now she's PTSD Aragorn ranger'ing around the galaxy shooting lots of people vigilante style.. in fact I think they even call her a vigilante in one scene lol. You know all those boring episodes of Voyager where we got endless Janeway and 7 of 9 scenes (funny now considering how much the actors disliked each other) handcrafting her into a civilized 24th century human being? Well say goodbye to that folks cause now she's a messed up Bourbon drinking badass assassin for hire! She's helping those in need who can't help themselves and is more than happy to kill a few hundred people in the process if they get in her way *cue dramatic 80s action music* lol!

So what now then.. I mean in her final scene she lies to Picard, beams back down and offs the crime lord chick and then starts mowing down the place and it cuts away. The end! So that's answers the question of will she be a regular.. nope.. she's gooone. Maybe she'll come back later? Maybe she's return in a future season? Maybe they'll even be a nice happy ending redemption story for her down the track too (although that doesn't bring poor Icheb back does it lol)? Or maybe not lol and that'll be the end of her story and every time Voyager fans re-watch the old show they'll be like "oh look there's Icheb, when voyager gets home he joins starfleet and gets brutally tortured and murdered for spare parts.. and oh look there's 7 of 9, she's the one that kills him and leaves him there to be dissected for said parts lol, and spends the rest of her life miserable and shooting up half the galaxy in revenge." It's like the new Star Wars films.. I don't enjoy seeing my favourite childhood characters being brutally murdered in front of me. Because now when I re-watch the original stuff I just see their cheap deaths. Data's death in Nemesis had a similar effect on me so that's why I was so happy about this show as it gave me hope that they'd "do a star trek 3" and find a way to resurrect him. But now I find myself wondering how many other beloved characters are gonna get killed or messed up on the road to that happy ending, assuming thats even what happens, we may not even get that lol.

Anyway sorry.. back to the slaughter.. Bruce maddox.. they found him.. and he was all a messed up stressed alcoholic too of course.. cause everyone's messed up these days.. aaaaaaand then he was dead. All he bloody did was tell them her name and that shes at the cube and next thing we know he's getting offed by his own girlfriend (20 or so years younger than him I might add, yeeeaaahhh way to go on office romance bro! pulling those youngers chicks aint easy bro.. high 5!) giving us our innocent clumsy girl is actually working for bad guys shock moment at the end of the episode.. fake gasp.. yeah.. like I said before I was already completely disconnected by that stage and just didn't even care.
[/SPOILER]

Urgh.. end of rant. Breath Daniel.. Just breath... lol

Like I said.. they're gonna need to work hard to undo the damage this episode did. I think I'd rather rewatch most of the episodes in discovery season 1 than ever watch that episode again lol.

Everywhere I go so far I've seem pretty horrified responses to ep5. I've seen a couple of dudes say they loved ep5 though, I was like WAAAT lol.

[SPOILER]
Quote:
I will pay the episode one compliment though.. their attention to detail on past Trek events once again is impressive. Eg they acknowledged Picard's Borg past which I was worried they wouldn't. They mentioned Quark in the bar sequence. And the biggest one would be during the horrible Icheb torture surgery scene where the lady callously says "where's your cortical node buddy?" as shes ripping stuff out of him. In season 7 of Voyager Icheb risked his life and gave his to 7 of 9 when her failed and they realised she couldn't survive without one while he might, which of course he did.

Meanwhile some self appointed comedian just thew this hand grenade into a Voyager facebook group. I'm sure you can image how well that went down with them lol. Too soon? Yeah just a bit lol.

Rest in pieces picture
/SPOILER]

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Old February 28th 20, 21:18   #23
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Re: Star Trek Picard Series

I broadly agree with you about episode 5, if not about all the details. But I've just watched episode 6 and think it's the best episode yet.
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Old March 20th 20, 13:21   #24
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Re: Star Trek Picard Series

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Originally Posted by Springer View Post
I broadly agree with you about episode 5, if not about all the details. But I've just watched episode 6 and think it's the best episode yet.
Agreed!

Probably noticed I haven't posted here since I blew up a bit over Ep5 haha. I have kept watching the show though but was less invested in it to continue posting my episode round ups. I said after ep 5 that they'd really need some good eps to undo the damage that did, so...

Here's my thoughts on eps 6-9..
[SPOILER]
Quote:
They sort of did as Ep6 was really good. I love any story line that deals with Picard's trauma from the Borg, eg some my favourite powerful moments in classic Trek include Picard braking down in front of his brother at the chateau after Best of Both Worlds and Picard loosing it and smashing the ship glass case in First Contact. THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN HERE! So that moment when he saw his own face as locutus and his reaction was cool. Seeing him on the cube and the way the ex-Bs reacted to him was interesting too. I'm glad Soji got activated as I was getting a bit over the innocent girl on the cube with her cool badass lying boyfriend storyline. The queens chamber was cool and I liked the nod of the head to Voyagers Sikarians and the Borg using their teleporter tech after assimilation.

Ep7 was enjoyable due to us getting some nice fan service and seeing some beloved characters again, but some of those annoying things started to creep back in again. Troy & Riker lost a child due to a reason that just seems so silly.. a disease that is only cured by taking stuff from an android brain.. give me a break.. and once again WHY DOES EVERY SINGLE FRIGGIN PERSON IN THIS SHOW HAVE TO BE MESSED UP FROM TRAUMA??? why can't anyone at all be okay lol. I'm sick to death of it. People loved Star Trek because it painted a picture of this near perfect Utopian human future where greed, money, racism, poverty, addiction and all the other nasty stuff was either eliminated or barely there and therefore was usually projected onto the alien races, this giving people hope for the future and some nice escapism from all the news that tell us we're gonna destroy ourselves. However these writers seem to be intent on bringing the misery of their own lives into Star Trek making it not really escapism at all, now its just what we see on the news and todays flawed humans but with spaceships lol. Don't get me wrong, I love my dystopian dark future shows too but as for Star Trek unless its an alternate universe than I dont like them screwing up the prime timeline and characters we know and love. and don't even get me started on the smoking addiction BS.. I'll just leave this here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BesKS-bCDbo

Also clearly Kurtzman seems to have forgot Inner Light where Picard raised an entire family but oh now apparently now he knows nothing about teenagers so he gets schooled by Riker & Troi for it.. Urgh..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vaj_ypAbN_Q

Oh and surprise surprise another old character has bought it.. but that's okay.. we've got these great new ones to replace them so who cares lol. The fact I just struggle to remember the names of the new characters really does show how great they are lol. RIP Hugh. Also wtf.. she's a evil lady pretty much killing everyone but she won't touch Hugh because he's a federation citizen. He helped Picard escape but she still has to hear him say that he's not on her side before she can kill him.. ugh come on..

Anyway on to episode 8 and its okay I guess.. but still some annoying stuff.. our Vulcan commodore is apparently half Romulan which I guess explain the sunglasses gaffe a few episodes back as vulcans don't need them, although clearly she has retained her Vulcan ability to mind meld as I've never seen a Romulan do that. The mind meld is what made Dr Death kill her lover and act all weird for ages.. but now she's fine and won't hurt anyone cause she and Soji talked about mucus lol. We see the source of the vision is from an alien artifact and we get further explanation on the main plot. Action Jackson 7 of 9 returns and kicks some more ass. She takes control of the cube which was kind of cool although apparently she doesn't have control of the airlocks and the Romulans do lol, plus apparently the Romulans can just stand there on a balcony and watch just fine (It'd like Pike watching the torpedo explode 2 meters away via a glass window all over again, or Spock watching Vulcan go into a black hole on a another planet with a thick cloudy sky lol). And somehow Borg are useless in a vacuum despite us seeing them operate in space just fine in First Contact although I guess it was more the venting that got them as Voyager vented a few Borg into space back in the day too. Anyway not much else to say about this ep as it was mostly plot moving and setup for final eps.

So I've just done Ep9.. yeah hmm.. I feel like I should have felt more and connected more with this episode but just didn't.. back in my first comments I predicted that there was someone else behind these androids and it wasn't just Bruce Maddox and I was right. I was just wrong about who it was lol. I predicted Lore, but it turns out there's another generation of Soong, another brother of sorts to Data. When Dr Soong Jr Jr Jr Jr Jr whatever (remember there was the one in the eugenics wars ep of Enterpise too haha) walked out the music didn't seem to change much, it was very fast, and he just took off into dialogue straight away.. the whole delivery felt wrong.. I should have been like WOOOOOWWW.. but instead I was like.. oh.. okay.. cool I guess.. as it was nice to see Brent back.

Then something really really stupid happened.. Soji's mum or whatever you wanna call her, an earlier android model and seemingly some sort of leader there has somehow taught herself to do Vulcan mind melds.. because you know she likes Vulcans n stuff. Yes I kid you not.. an android that just magically learned telepathy because she likes the aliens that can do them. Are you freakin kidding me???.. stupid f****** bloody writers.. omg!! I mean Data did a vulcan neck pinch in TNG but that was a nerve pinch that presumably just requires a lot of strength hence why no one else ever did it. But android learning an alien races telepathy as a hobby???.. arrggghhhhh

Anyway she melds and sees the vision.. now she's corrupted by it too.. possibly kills that chick and frees (all sexually lol) Nerek or whatever the hell his name is and is gonna 'ET call home' and bring an android alien invasion exterminate everyone thing to stop the massive Romulan warbird extermination fleet that is somehow just out there despite the fact that most of the romulan survivors seem to be refugees living in squalor camps and no one knew about the Zhat Vash. But hey maybe its the surviving romulan fleet being manipulated by the Zhat Vash. I don't know.. we see the commodore has apparently left her rather important Federation position and is now commanding an entire romulan fleet.. bit of a jump but yeah sure.. whatever..

Oh and how could I forget that they somehow grew giant flowers that can fly through space and drag down spaceships and borg cubes.. giant flowers bigger than cities and that fly into space.. grown by maddox in his lab.. while one of his android daughters was busy taking up Vulcan telepathy as a hobby..

It really is just like the new star wars films.. why do writers these days treat us with no respect and think that we're so stupid that we'll follow anything.. sometimes its so dark you think it's not suitable for children (eg Icheb eyeball rip) then other times like this where we're expected to take giant leaps of faith over plot holes like a child would..

Thanks to covid-19 the Melbourne Formula 1 race was cancelled and in the giant slots that were allocated to what would have been the tv race coverage they filled with old episodes of TNG, VOY and even some TOS.. so I thought why not and sat there watching them.. and my god.. the universe.. and the writing.. there's just so much more intelligence behind them..

We live in an age where people that grew up watching these scifi shows and films is now old enough to get into hollywood and create their own spin offs, remakes and sequels to these great old shows. All they had to do was bring back the same quality of writing and acting and we'd be living in a golden age. However instead of feeling like I'm watching actual sequels I just feel like I'm just watching fanboy films/eps that are filmed on hollywood sets with big budgets instead of Dad's shed with some toilet paper rolls, mops and bed sheets for props lol.

Anyway.. I seemed to be more relieved that there's one episode to go in Picard than I am excited to see what happens next with the story. Sort of just want it to be over so I can move on again. I didn't even feel that way about Disco (well maybe a bit in season 1 lol but not season 2). To feel that way about a Star Trek show really sucks.. especially as normally I'm the super tolerant scifi obsessed guy defending stuff like this to the haters.. yet here I am becoming one.. but a couple of threads keep my interest still to see this thing out and probably watch future seasons too lol.

Dr death is helping Dr Soong Jr Jr Jr Jr* Jr whatever with that Golum so maybe it will be Data. I just hope I.. feel something.. when he appears cause that's meant to be the pay off for all this surely lol.. Apparently this neuron thread thing stuff talked about back in ep2 means some of data's memories can be restored but some memories would not really be him would it. So it makes me think how on earth can these writers really bring him (the full Data we know and love) back and can they do it in a way that isn't stupid lol. Which then makes me think maybe they won't bring him back and this is as good as it gets lol.. but hey todays writers love recycling old stories and rearranging them (ST Into Darkness lol) so if Soji's evil mum can mind meld then why not just do a Star Trek 3 and mind meld Data backed up memories out of B4 and into a new body.. I might even tolerate that nonsense if it leads to datas return lol.. but plugging in a usb cable like Data did in Nemesis seems like a better way haha.. hell maybe that's what they're gonna do haha.. i dunno lol..

Will also be interesting to see how Picards brain disorder is dealt with too.

Oh and one of my mates is convinced that Picard is an android because you see him being 'put together' in the show's intro, so he's counting down to the 'big reveal' lol. We all laughed at him but hell with this show any crazy cr*p is possible haha. So I dunno about that theory but the convo between Dr death and Dr Soong Jr Jr Jr Jr Jr whatever about transferring human consciousness across into androids (like the actual Dr Soong already did with Data's mother, although the writers probably don't remember that lol) being close plants an interesting seed on this subject that I wonder what it will lead to (otherwise why did that scene happen?). Eg Picard is prob not an (failing) android now but maybe they'll stick him into one before his poor human brain gives out haha.

Either way.. weeks ago I was telling you guys that I liked the show but that I was still needing to see more to really decide. Well now I've seen like 90% of the show and I can say I don't love it, I don't hate it, it has bits I like, it has bits that annoy me, so I'm just somewhere in between all that sticking with it to see what happens with Data and & Picard.
[/SPOILER]
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Old March 21st 20, 16:10   #25
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Re: Star Trek Picard Series

I really enjoyed episodes 6, 7 and 8, and can forgive episode 5 - even B5 had its occasional misstep. Episode 9 lost me a little bit, mainly because I was a bit confused watching it and trying to follow all the characters' motivations – I probably need to watch it again. I like most of the cast, though the character of Elnor hasn't really won me over. But at least Seven gets to do some cool stuff.

[SPOILER]
Quote:

It was a surprising turn for Troi and Riker, but it feels true to real life that people undergo tragedies or things in life that can mess them up. I don't think it's fair to say, for example, that it's okay for there to be stories about Picard being traumatised by his Borg experience, and lauding the episodes that deal with that, and then saying there shouldn't be stories about other characters experiencing their own trauma. Heck, even in TNG, right from the very beginning, the Crushers had the trauma of losing Jack Crusher as part of their back story. It's part of being human, and in some ways Troi and Riker were the most human (or half-Betazed) they've ever been in episode 7.

I do agree with you on the plot point about needing a positronic brain to cure their son – it seemed heavy handed.

I'm not sure why you bring up Kurtzman – the show runner and chief writer is Pulitzer Prize winning writer Michael Chabon. Kurtzman's just in the background as an exec producer, playing the role Rick Berman used to play I guess, but this is very much Chabon's show.

And Jean-Luc Picard has always been socially awkward, especially around kids (in the Inner Light he didn't raise a family – he was experiencing someone else's memories of doing so, not the same thing). He got away with it in TNG as he could use the excuse that he was the Captain to distance himself from the others. He can't do that here, so those flaws are on show.

I was kind of hoping 'Son of Soong' was just Lore in disguise, especially as Soong never mentioned a biological son, but I don't think it is Lore, unfortunately. No doubt he'll get killed next episode. And yes, the mind-meld thing was daft (how can an android be telepathic? - but then again, no one has ever said they couldn't). Interesting that you say she's corrupted by it too... I'd assumed she was just a bit evil, but maybe this vision is some kind of telepathic imperative that is acting to make sure events happen in a certain way?

Was disappointed we didn't see any old-style Romulan warbirds in their fleet, or even the cruisers from Nemesis.

I loved the Orchids. Don't think they were that big though, it took several of them grabbing the corners of the Borg ship to pull it down.

I've got a theory about Picard, that they'll give him a positronic brain, or at least part of one, to save him, and it will be based on one of Data's positronic neurons, which will give Picard the ability to see Data in his mind and talk to him. Though I'm puzzled by his illness. They allude to it being the Irumodic syndrome, but don't name it, and in All Good Things... I got the impression that Irumodic syndrome was a gradual disease, like getting Alzheimers, whereas this seems a lot more sudden, so I'm not sure what it is.


Quote:
It really is just like the new star wars films.. why do writers these days treat us with no respect and think that we're so stupid that we'll follow anything.. sometimes its so dark you think it's not suitable for children (eg Icheb eyeball rip) then other times like this where we're expected to take giant leaps of faith over plot holes like a child would..

Thanks to covid-19 the Melbourne Formula 1 race was cancelled and in the giant slots that were allocated to what would have been the tv race coverage they filled with old episodes of TNG, VOY and even some TOS.. so I thought why not and sat there watching them.. and my god.. the universe.. and the writing.. there's just so much more intelligence behind them..
I'm not sure that's fair. It doesn't feel anything like the new Star Wars films to me, and I do feel like Chabon and his co-writers are treating the audience with respect. The show isn't dumbed down and it has internal consistency, and it's trying to write more complex characters than we've seen for the most part in Trek. I mean, I love TNG, like DS9, can tolerate Voyager, but my goodness some of the writing in those old episodes was rushed, hackneyed, and daft. Until Picard gives us stories as bad as Justice, Code of Honor, Imaginary Friend, Sub Rosa, Eye of the Beholder, Move Along Home, that episode where Paris evolves into a salamander, the final episode of Enterprise, then I don't think it's a fair thing to say. Mind you, neither Picard nor Discovery has really hit the heights of those series either yet, but there's still time. And I do agree that it's too dark in places – I got my love of Star Trek from watching it as a child, and I think Star Trek should always be a show that you can watch with your kids. Mild swearing and mild violence is one thing, and you can let your kids watch it with discretion, but having F-bombs and gory violence means kids can't watch.

I think there's a trend now where we all expect TV shows to be perfect, and if they are not then they get heavily and unfairly criticised. But Trek has never been perfect – nor was B5 – and I think accepting their flaws is part of their charm.

[/SPOILER]
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Old March 25th 20, 12:35   #26
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Re: Star Trek Picard Series

I have to admit, I was initially so stoked for this. TNG was a big part of my early teens, and it also led me to B5 and other SF.

With every passing episodes I like it less and less. I felt like it opened quite well, setting up the pieces, giving us a few things to chew on. But the show is so consumed with having 'an arc' that they've forgotten how to tell a good story in a single episode. And when the arc itself has left me shaking my head, it's really hard to stay engaged with ST: Picard when even the overarching plot just feels contrived, weird and dull.

As for the new characters, I still feel like we know next to nothing about them and I have trouble remembering their names. Han Solo guy, murdery cyberneticist with funny quips, drinky ex-startfleet officer and ninja space elf... I mean, I am 9 episodes in and I can barely name them, let alone care about them. And the whole spiel in Ep 9 with Agnes Jurati saying the crew was 'family' or 'a gang' was just so dumb, as they've barely bonded at all.

I honestly though the Riker / Troi episode was the most callous of them all. Whilst it was lovely to see them both back on screen, it added nothing. They sat around and made pizza for an entire episode and managed some ham-fisted 'emotional' moments, none of which were earned in any way. I hated the 'dead kid' plot as well. It felt cheap and totally unnecessary.

Starting to wish they had left this very much alone. It has strong member-berries vibes, and I can see why people might compare it to the new Star Wars stuff. Whilst Disco had its flaws, it's still a good deal better than this.

Last edited by Ubik; March 25th 20 at 12:38.
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Old March 26th 20, 10:51   #27
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Re: Star Trek Picard Series

Hey Ubik, good to see you around these parts again.

I've been watching through DS9 on Netflix, and while I like it, the same thing bothers me now that did back when it originally aired, which is that it lacks a sense of, I don't know, grounded realism in its world-building, characters and environment compared to B5. The station doesn't feel lived in at all, it's all too clean and it comes across as plasticky, for want of a better word, and the world-building is often superficial, which then reflects on the characters. They'll give Sisko a character trait such as liking baseball, and then make him out to be eccentric for having a hobby that doesn't have some lofty goal behind it. O'Brien and Bashir are ribbed for their 'juvenile' holo-deck adventures. It probably harks back to a lot of the foundations that Roddenberry set in stone when he conceived TNG where he wanted the characters to set aside a lot of the human condition - completely at odds with the original series (TNG is my favourite Trek series, btw, so I'm not meaning this as an attack on the show).

I think with Discovery and now Picard, the writing teams have tried to go in the opposite direction, trying to make their characters and their world-building feel more real, to try and include some more of the human condition. And some of it is derivative, or unmemorable, and some of it jars with what we've come to expect from Star Trek. We've never seen a Starfleet (or ex-Starfleet) character as messed up as Raffi, or someone as loose-living as Rios. Some people will say those kinds of characters don't have a place in Star Trek, and I admit it's caused me to raise my eyebrows and I'm not sure how I feel about it either, in terms of its place in the Star Trek universe. But while the characters aren't as memorable yet as some of the old Star Trek characters, they feel more like real people to me than many of the characters in DS9, for example. Maybe the problem with the characters in Picard is that making them feel real, in terms of character traits and the world around them, isn't enough on its own to make the characters memorable. Instead, it's their decisions and choices that will determine that. But there's still time how many TNG or DS9 characters were considered memorable after just 9 episodes in their first seasons?
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Old March 26th 20, 17:09   #28
Ubik
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Re: Star Trek Picard Series

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Originally Posted by Springer
Maybe the problem with the characters in Picard is that making them feel real, in terms of character traits and the world around them, isn't enough on its own to make the characters memorable. Instead, it's their decisions and choices that will determine that. But there's still time how many TNG or DS9 characters were considered memorable after just 9 episodes in their first seasons?

You make a really good point there, I guess I just wish the show had given some space for the new characters to really breathe and develop, instead of shoe-horning in old cast members where they really weren't required. It's that fan service thing, it's rarely a service and more a dis-service to the show. I still think it's too beholden to 'the arc', and they have forgotten the appeal of self contained adventures that would give us an attachment to the new cast.



Perhaps I am being too harsh. I remember HATING the first few seasons of DS9, but was very fond of it by the end. Maybe in another 2 seasons, I will love Rios, Raffi and Agnes? Who knows!



I used to see S1 of B5 as something t be endured, but I now very much enjoy it. So yeah, opinions change.
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Old March 26th 20, 17:11   #29
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Re: Star Trek Picard Series

Anyhow, new episode tonight I think... so some more stuff to rant about! Hahahaha.
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Old March 27th 20, 09:26   #30
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Re: Star Trek Picard Series

Oh dear... where to start with the season finale? Or indeed the season seen as a whole. WARNING SPOILERS AHEAD

Magical tech solves all the plot problems!

Characters are mysteriously emotional about people they barely know!

The entire crew have barely had the chance to get to know each other, yet they are all VERY upset about Picard. Also, Data and Picard were never that close and the whole data thing feels weirdly tacked on.

Also, why have we never heard of this all powerful machine AI that's coming to wipe out everyone? I wondered if there could be a link to Control in Disco, but nope.

I enjoyed Riker turning up with a fleet, but again it all seemed so implausible given the stance of the Federation on synthetics and Picard himself.

This whole season was just a mess, and I feel like they could have opted for a 2 hour pilot movie that throws the disparate characters together, then we get proper 'episodes' on the ship. The whole Dahj and Soji / Romluan / Borg plot could have been scrapped with minimal impact, which says a lot about its quality.

So, where the season ends finally puts us in a good place for a more traditional Trek show where the crew go have adventures. Hey, maybe we can ever get some character development and get to know them!?

But, as I see it, there's no 'why' or overarching purpose to them together as a crew now. Overall, this was a pretty terrible season of TV that could have been so much more.

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