No more women movie leads (WB)

The point about decent scripts is valid.I watched Death Proof the other night which while it had Kurt Russel in the lead role it was mainly about the women in the movie.Seeing two seperate group of women talk like they were actually in Pulp Fiction or any other of Tarentino's films.It wasn't the women that made it crap though,just the fact that it was a badly told film with shite dialogue.

Stop making scripts written by a mutant that thinks Kill Bill is worth making and try someone with a bit of talent.Throwing women into films like this does little to help the women in that they are making shite.

Can't anybody write a decent film anymore that has a story worth watching or is it just overhyped bollox in general that gets made nowadays.

KoshFan said:

Sci-fi's cousin Fantasy, of course, is almost as bad as it can get, with the possible exception of Eowyn in LotR.

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If I remember the books correctly, basically women really weren't a part of the story much at all. Those who were technically there were more ghost-like and mystical beings.

LotR was a fantasy written by a man for young men, essentially. He didn't have a lot of "stereotypical" women characters just to have them about, he just left them out of the story for the most part.

hypatia said:

If I remember the books correctly, basically women really weren't a part of the story much at all. Those who were technically there were more ghost-like and mystical beings.

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women are mystical and almost wraith like, nobody can explain them or hold them in place long enough to understand them

I know of plenty of strong female characters in fantasy,Mara from the Empire trilogy by Fiest and Wurts,most of Jordon's Wheel of Time female characters are strong,the Thomas Covenent series had strong women characters,Granny Weatherwax from Discworld,Conan got Grace Jones and even Merlin's story has Morganna.

Series like Hercules and even Xena(despite having female leads) put that image of the genre before everybody.

Although I must admit it never bothered me seeing loads of half naked women lounging around

The point about decent scripts is valid.I watched Death Proof the other night which while it had Kurt Russel in the lead role it was mainly about the women in the movie.Seeing two seperate group of women talk like they were actually in Pulp Fiction or any other of Tarentino's films.It wasn't the women that made it crap though,just the fact that it was a badly told film with shite dialogue.

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In Deathproof's defense, it's supposed to be a tribute/spoof of a certain type of low-grade movie from the 70s. So it's "shite" dialogue with cool car chases because the movies it was referencing had shite dialogue and cool car chases (or shite car chases). People went to these movies to see cheap action, but since you can't make a movie with 90 minutes of action, they had to pad them.

Grindhouse was awesome for those of us who are into that kind of thing, but we're a small niche market. It was all a grand marketing failure.

Those who were technically there were more ghost-like and mystical beings.

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And also inn wenches who serve ale and flirt with the hero's roguish sidekick.

Terry Goodkind's "Sword of Truth" series actually treats women pretty well. There's a female lead who is no less prominent a character than the male hero, and she and other women are actually as much human as the men; well as much as they can be in a story with magic.

most of Jordon's Wheel of Time female characters are strong

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Yeah they're strong but they're also naggy, cold, bitches. And the ones who aren't are fools.

It's easy to make women "strong." The trick is give them that touch of humanity that shows respect to them as people, which is exactly what is so rare in fiction written by men. I know this isn't really going out on a limb here, but B5 did the best job of this I've ever seen on TV.

WB are Retardicons. Plain as.

Try George RR Martin for some strong female roles in fantasy.

KoshFan said:

...Some have actually argued that Firefly is his worst work because it's the most stereotypical in its portrayal of women, with the Gina Torres character being so tough she's one of the guys and with the space hooker, I mean "companion." But even there the show plays with expectations, because the space hooker is the most respectable person on the boat and Gina Torres's character is happily married to Alan Tudyk's. When was the last time you saw a good solid marriage on TV?

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And from what I remember of commentaries and the like, Joss had to really argue with the network in order to be allowed to have Zoe and Wash married.

A question:

If WB did decide to make such a decision, why would they announce it in public?

In honesty, I don't see them winning many "friends" by letting this news out. I would think this kind of a decision would be more one made quietly, behind closed doors, between the upper-ups.

Why do you suppose they either released the information? Or it was leaked by someone at WB?

I don't know, but it's possible they felt it was a business decision they had to explain to shareholders.

hypatia said:

LotR was a fantasy written by a man for young men, essentially. He didn't have a lot of "stereotypical" women characters just to have them about, he just left them out of the story for the most part.

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And LotR was not the sum total of fantasy; I find it somewhat ironic that one of the most sympathetic portrayals in fantasy of a woman caught up in a man's world was written by a guy who pretty much didn't write women, period. However, the others here have given some good counterexamples.

GKE's pretty much on the mark with his comments on the Wheel of Time series. GRR Martin's books do have some strong female characters, but interestingly enough the strongest of them all are usually despised by male readers (I wonder if there's a connection?).

Granny Weatherwax and her colleague Nanny Ogg are, however, sterling examples of how it ought to be done.

crazyhorse said:

Stop making scripts written by a mutant that thinks Kill Bill is worth making and try someone with a bit of talent.

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Ah, but Kill Bill was worth making!

GRR Martin's books do have some strong female characters, but interestingly enough the strongest of them all are usually despised by male readers (I wonder if there's a connection?).

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I'm not familiar with his work, but I already know exactly what you're talking about.

I generally don't find it tasteful or insightful to try to second guess the mentality of artists- the work should stand on its own merits. But when it comes to the portrayal of women in some fiction, I can't help but just feel a sad resentment of someone's wife or something oozing across the screen or page.

KoshFan said:

Ah, but Kill Bill was worth making!

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Agreed... just not with Uma Thurman. *shudder*

She is the main reason I haven't been able to watch either movie all the way through in one sitting. But Tarantino has an eternal boner for her, so there's not much we can do about it.

hypatia said:

A question:
{snip}
Why do you suppose they either released the information? Or it was leaked by someone at WB?

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It could have been leaked. Warner Brothers may simply have wanted agents to stop coming to them say this script will make a vehicle for <x>. Scriptwriters will also stop sending in scripts with women leads.

LondosHair said:

Agreed... just not with Uma Thurman. *shudder*

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Aww, I rather liked her in Kill Bill. But then, my taste in movies has a few blind spots in it.

I dig Uma. The chick's got style.

On an unrelated note, Warner Brothers is also a bunch of bitches when it comes to copyright clearance. Even for a simple graduate student film that is going nowhere outside of USC they won't give me clearance for the Harry Potter book covers. They didn't even try charging me; just flat out denied me for "business and strategic" reasons. Bitches.