b5 interior map wanted

Whether or not you make money doesn't affect whether or not a use is an infringement -- it only affects the amount of the damages a trademark owner can collect. If you're not using any images or characters from B5, and since specifics of the station design weren't hugely pivotal on the show, why base your module even loosely on B5? Why not just create your own environment and call it something else? If you're using the name, you obviously want to trade on the fact that Babylon 5 is a known quantity.

if it isnt that good im not even going to do anything with it ill probually delete it and i want too make a b5 map cause i like it and there have been worse breeches of copyright law on the site i will release it on im not in the mood to argue the finer rights of the law right now

I would say he would be OK to make a station based loosely on B5 for his own roleplaying little gang.The thing is I could write a B5 book without breaking any copyright laws as long as it wasn't published without permission.This protectionism over JMS's work can go a little far,give the kid a break
As too why do it,why not?He is playing a star wars game and wants to make it a little more his/her/its own universe.A bit of stealing the good bits from other shows and mashing them all together is part of that.

why are you talking about me like i am a six yr old who cant read god if you didnt have a point id be insulted by that!

AnlaShokGrey has a lot of knowledge about copyright law and does her best to dispell incorrect assumptions about infringement. It's not a matter of being protectionist about JMS's work, he doesn't own B5. You'd be amazed at some of the misapprehensions I've seen posted.

Just as I jump in with info from the scripts when something incorrect is posted, AnlaShokGrey jumps in when there's infringement going on that a poster might not be aware of. Face it, if ryuu is thinking of posting his/her work on a website, that *is* publishing it. Isn't it better to be informed by a friendly fellow boardmember than by a 'Cease and Desist' letter from WB's lawyers? Because it's *not* JMS's universe, it's theirs.

Ryuu, no offense meant, but your posts are kind of hard to read sometimes because of the spelling.

Jan

sorry and you certainly have a point there but im most likely not going to release it or even complete it as im not rlly good at mapping

Just reading back,didn't realise it was for an online game
That would make a differance in copyright but a few changes in layout would cover that ok.

not totaly online

The thing is I could write a B5 book without breaking any copyright laws as long as it wasn't published without permission.

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Well, first of all, what riyuu was contemplating was trademark infringement rather than copyright infringement. But to address your point, it's not strictly correct. First of all, if you wrote a book using characters from Babylon 5, again, it's trademark infringement, not copyright infringement. It would be copyright infringement if you used passages of JMS's (or any of the other scriptwriters') dialogue, or passages from any of the B5 novels.

And, you say that it wouldn't be an infringement unless you published without permission. Well, to "publish" is a fairly vague term that could mean a lot of things, but I'm assuming you mean "print books and sell them." Not true. You are infringing on WB's trademark if you write that book using characters from B5, and distribute it. Distribution means giving out copies, whether you're charging or not. So if you made five copies and gave them to your parents and your handful of best friends, probably nobody would care; but if you printed out fifty or a hundred copies and gave them out for free at a con -- or, if you posted it on a website where people could read it for free -- you've infringed on WB's trademark.

Someone on the LiveJournal B5 community just brought up getting a tattoo of a B5 symbol and wondered if it would be a copyright infringement. Just to clarify, "trademark" generally refers to a word, a short phrase, or a symbol or design or logo (characters fall under trademark). While "copyright" protects original works of authorship, including literary, dramatic, musical, artistic, and certain other intellectual works (the content of scripts fall under copyright).

And, thanks Jan, for your kind words.

Amy

So, Amy, it sounds like fanfiction is all illegal?

Sorry, I don't have a map like you're looking for, and haven't seen any either. If I had, I'd provide. Of course not under my current screen name, and of course through channels which aren't amenable to tracing.

Whatever you do, know the risk of legal nuisances. Publish anonymously when risk is high.

Anonymity has technical and social requirements. Know them first, diving into unknown waters without thought is not smart.

Of course, it requires willingness to publish free of charge, since money doesn't move anonymously. It also requires not exposing personal information, so you mustn't have a motive of fame either.

Besides being requirements, lack of money and fame decrease people's incentive to try invoking laws or otherwise pestering you (since you aren't getting to hold anything which they could be wishing for themselves instead).

So, Amy, it sounds like fanfiction is all illegal?

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Being a resident IP lawyer, I'm sure Amy would find it necessary to explain that "legally it's a violation unless you receive permission, which no author or corporation in their right mind gives you to avoid weakening their intellectual property rights".

Being a local infoanarchist, I would of course find it necessary to point out that "socially, fan fiction is harmless, and besides technically, it only takes small effort to publish it without giving anyone a quarter of a clue about how to start finding you".

So, Amy, it sounds like fanfiction is all illegal?

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Yes, that's correct -- all unlicensed fan fiction is an infringement of copyright. Although, the degree to which copyright owners tolerate fan fiction varies from property to property. I'm sure many are familiar with how upset Gene Roddenberry was with K/S slash stuff; I don't know if he actually went ahead and pursued legal remedies with any distributors of such fanfic, but certainly some copyright owners have. Others view it as promotion, or at the very least a mark of good will between the copyright owner and the fan base. It depends on the property, the degree of the distribution, and, most importantly, the sensitivity of the copyright holder.

Amy

Call your spacestation something like Charlie 6 and put the control room in Black Sector. It will save you a lot of bother.

or dont distribute it!

Do be aware, however, that posting it online is distributing it.

uh that has been said atleas once id read my own messages if i was you!

Friendly fellow

Amy, if it all comes down to the sensitivity of the copyright/trademark holder, wouldn't that then similarly apply to ryuu making a floormap of areas of the station for his and his online associates' gaming purposes? If ryuu took it down if WB announce that they have a problem with it, then that'd be that, right? But they could also end up not sensitive enough for it to matter, too, just like with fanfiction.

uh that has been said atleas once id read my own messages if i was you!

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Uh, ryuu, I know it's been said -- it's likely that I said it! If I'm repeating myself, it's because I know how infringers think, and your flip little comment, "or dont [sic] distribute it!" sounded like just the thing someone says when they're rationalizing in their own minds the fact that they didn't actually do anything (or are about to do anything) wrong. Pardon me if I was mistaken, and that's not what you were thinking.

Also, it's bad netiquette to start a post with "Uh," or "Um," because it's generally assumed to be dismissive, and you're not likely to make many friends when you start out dismissing someone as an asshole right at the outset of your reply. Chill, dude: you might acknowledge the fact that some of us are just trying to help keep you out of trouble.

Amy, if it all comes down to the sensitivity of the copyright/trademark holder, wouldn't that then similarly apply to ryuu making a floormap of areas of the station for his and his online associates' gaming purposes? If ryuu took it down if WB announce that they have a problem with it, then that'd be that, right? But they could also end up not sensitive enough for it to matter, too, just like with fanfiction.

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vacantlook, that's exactly correct, except that if something came directly to the attention of WB, they'd likely at least write a threatening letter of the cease-and-desist variety, simply to make the case that they weren't abandoning their copyrights or trademarks. They pretty much have to do that if something comes to their attention. In the case of fanfic, it generally doesn't come to their attention. Because even in a big, lucrative business like WB, the publishing end of things is always the "armpit" side of the business, getting precious little resources and staff, and they just do not have the staff to sit around all day and surf the web looking for fanfic authors to prosecute.

So, in a case like this, someone may certainly elect to take their chances and proceed, but I like to let them know that there are potential consequences. It's like an orthopedist being at a cocktail party and noticing someone with a limp; it's really hard to resist 'diagnosing' when this is what you do (or have done) for a living!

Amy