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Old February 17th 03, 13:59   #1
DarkVorlon
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First Ones Mysteries - exchanges of ideas needed

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(FROM OTHER POST) and the great thing about the first ones is everyone can draw their own opinions about their motives without putting them into a box.

Thanks!!! you are starting to understand what I want. To see those opinions posted and to start discussion on the principal matter of the show, us getting away from the guidance of the first ones. But please don't start talking about us, it seems that JMS and others are going to cover that topic pretty well, but it seems that nobody wants to talk about the First Ones anymore. So far only one topic was posted since I start my "campaing" and look, it diverts completly from the First Ones. Why everybody have such apathy to the First Ones? Why it seems that you think that the First Ones are not important in the Babylon 5 universe beyond pulling out their ships when some Trekki or Star Wars fan "attacks" B5?

Things that I want to see in disscusion are:

Lorien evolve to an energy form? His humaniod form was his true original form? Are Vorlons evolved energy beigns? Can it be possible that they have also a non-energy form that resembles their encounter suits as our encounter suits resemble our humanoid form when we evolve to energy beigns?

The first wars between the first ones (and please the war that involve mimbaris and Valen is NOT the first shadow war).

Why Walkers of Sigma 957 don't want to know or like the Vorlons?

Could it be possible that Walkers and Shadows try to shepperd the Vorlons (remember according to Delen Shadows are older than the Vorlons). Vorlons realize what they were doing and that is why Walkers are mad with the Vorlons and Vorlons and Shadows "hate" each other. Also it seems that Vorlon technology is somehow inferior to other First One's technology, (go check their jump gates)

When Vorlons open the Thridspace gate, Where were the ohter First Ones?

How we can rationalize that vorlons and shadow fighters are so weak against younger races ships, but then a group of 6 vorlon fighters (go count them) was able to cripple or disable a Shadow battlecruiser?

Vorlons kill the dilgar saying that we are not ready for inmortality. How the Vorlons reach inmortality with a serum or by birth?. Remember Lorien?, his race was the first of the first ones and they start to birth mortal and die?

Could that be the reason for Lorien to shepperd the other races because their people start to reincarnate in the Walkers, Vorlons or Shadows?

What about one of the B5 novels that mention a being call The WORM even Kosh get disturbed by the presence of the Worm.

Why vorlons choose to appears like angels? Are the Vorlons the angels that appears in the Bible or the Vorlon just took advantage of faith that were already present on a planet when they first visited it?

So people there are a lot of thing that can be discussed about the First Ones, give it a try please!!!
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Old February 17th 03, 14:00   #2
DaRkEnEdStAr
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Re: What\'s wrong with you pepople!!!

umm .. Yes
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Old February 17th 03, 20:22   #3
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Re: What\'s wrong with you pepople!!!

Easy killer!
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Old February 18th 03, 05:38   #4
jnk5y
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Re: What\'s wrong with you pepople!!!

I'll pick some of the topics.

I think the vorlons and shadows are not immortal. I think they have tech and are created in a way that they can live for a very long time. Reminds me of the bible in genesis where it lists all the people and their children and their childrens children. It also tells you how long they lived. If you notice, (no pun intended) in the beginning the people lived much longer than the people towards the end.

I think the vorlons decided to use normal gates b/c they wanted to look sorta young (like parents who use slang to appear cool). They didn't want the others to know how old they really were. I think shadows and vorlons and all the first ones are all evenly matched. I think once you get to a certain point in development you can't get any higher.
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Old February 18th 03, 13:27   #5
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Re: What\'s wrong with you pepople!!!

Your enthusiasm overwhelms us, Dark Vorlon. In case you hadn't noticed, I do care about the First Ones. But there are other aspects of the Babylon 5 universe, more easily understood and easily discussed. As I believe someone else posted in another thread, the First Ones are mysteries. To pry too much into them destroys some of their appeal. Besides, there's not a lot to discuss, for precisely that reason! JMS deliberately left them vague.

I am NOT saying, however, that they aren't worth discussing. Just that they shouldn't be obsessed about. So I'll still give some of your questions a shot.

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Why Walkers of Sigma 957 don't want to know or like the Vorlons?

I'm pretty sure that the Walkers knew about the original agreement: the Shadows and the Vorlons would guide the younger races. The Walkers then saw how both sides stopped caring about the younger races and focused only on the competition. Hence, dislike for the Vorlons; they'd strayed from their assigned path. Note that when the Walkers promise to join, they simply say that "they will be there," not that they will fight. They may have hoped that their simple presence could end the conflict -- a sort of reminder. Of course, even when they, five other races, and Lorien himself appear, the Vorlons and the Shadows don't seem to care.

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When Vorlons open the Thridspace gate, Where were the ohter First Ones?

I think this question is related to the earlier one. The Vorlons, by Lyta's admission, had grown very proud, and severely overconfident. As the Vorlons were not doing what they were supposed to be doing anyway, the other First Ones probably decided to let them deal with the problem themselves as their reward for their foolishness.

If the situation had gotten extremely out of hand, I expect the other races would have banded together to kick the Thirdspace folks out, but only after the Vorlons had been wiped out or crippled by the fight. If the Vorlons had gone down, I bet that even the Shadows would have stepped in.
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Old February 18th 03, 20:11   #6
A_M_Swallow
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Re: What\'s wrong with you pepople!!!

Quote:
I think the vorlons decided to use normal gates b/c they wanted to look sorta young (like parents who use slang to appear cool). They didn't want the others to know how old they really were. I think shadows and vorlons and all the first ones are all evenly matched. I think once you get to a certain point in development you can't get any higher.

The other reason that the Vorlons used the normal jump gates is that the jump gates were a Vorlon invention. So the Vorlons were using either gates that they had built or copies of their gates.
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Old February 19th 03, 12:15   #7
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Re: What\'s wrong with you pepople!!!

And it's a nice orderly system, the kind of thing they like. The Shadows come and go in a much more chaotic way, any way they please, which doesn't suit the Vorlon style at all.
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Old February 19th 03, 13:06   #8
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Re: What\'s wrong with you pepople!!!

This is only my opinion but:

I have no time what so ever for discussing the worm. I can't remember what book it was but if It's the one I think then the whole thing was garbage (IMO)

There were umpteen silly ideas like a race who have three eyes and can blind themselves by crying acid tears. And in the end the worm passed through the station and nothing happened.

So my personal opinion is that this story can be ignored, preferablely forgotten, hopefully destroyed; but maybe you feel differently.
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Old February 19th 03, 14:42   #9
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Re: What\'s wrong with you pepople!!!

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Are the Vorlons the angels that appears in the Bible or the Vorlon just took advantage of faith that were already present on a planet when they first visited it?
If they're so technologically advanced, why would they be fighting on our planet? In B5, someone somewhere mentioned how medieval-era paintings of demons fighting angels are actually Vorlons and Shadows, so they either were the angels and demons, fighting on Earth in anticipation of our eventual space age, when we would meet them and believe them to be angels; or, they just took advantage of our faith when they first met us. It's really impossible to say, but I think the latter is most likely.
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Old March 23rd 08, 18:32   #10
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Re: First Ones Mysteries - exchanges of ideas needed

I have a question about the Vorlons.One of my favourite moments of the whole series is the scene in "Interludes And Examinations" when Sheridan opposed Kosh and suggested that the Vorlons should get off ther encounter-suited butts and do something.One of Kosh's statements was-"...there are still few of us.We are not prepared yet."What did he mean?We know that the Vorlons can split their consciousness into pieces but can they split themselves into smaller parts and create an army for example.I was wondering if anyone has an explanation to that.
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