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Old September 18th 07, 09:57   #11
Galahad
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Re: The Gathering - Vorlon Question

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Originally Posted by Telepath View Post
Well, that makes "In The Beginning" break continuity even more than I had previously felt.
Not necessarily, the Vorlons have only just appeared on the scene at this point... and we have no reason to believe the Minbari are in touch with their Government at this time. Prior to Delenn, only Lennon and Dukhat knew what was in his sanctuary. I'd be willing to bet that with the time fast coming when the Shadows would surface once more, Kosh had urged the Vorlons to get in touch with the younger races starting with their old allies the Minbari. The vorlons - preferring to remain aloof, probably humoured Kosh on the condition that he took Ulkesh along with him to keep an eye on him. I would argue that at the time of ItB, Kosh and Ulkesh are the only vorlons in direct communication with the Minbari... and pretty much exclusively with Dukhat.

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And a simple message from Delenn (Grey Council) to the Vorlons concerning the matter would have sufficed. I still don't like it Ah well, it's an imperfect universe
If I remember rightly, the only times the Minbari Government hear from the Vorlon Government themselves directly, is when they have something to say. Any time the younger races want to address the vorlons it is done via Kosh... who at this point is incapacitated, or through Ulkesh... who is largely uncooperative.
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Old September 18th 07, 23:05   #12
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Re: The Gathering - Vorlon Question

Let's face it,the Vorlons were pretty stupid despite their fancy technology.
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Old September 19th 07, 03:48   #13
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Re: The Gathering - Vorlon Question

The B5 story developed as time progressed. While jms clearly had the broad strokes of the story worked out, he didn’t have the details at the time of the pilot. There was (of course) other factors that also meant the story would change as the show developed. You just need to look at the pilot and the first season to see that. And no, it can’t all be explained as simple misdirection on the part of jms to keep the viewer ‘confused’ about the wider story which was later revealed.

Another example of this from the pilot was when G’Kar managed to blackmail Londo into voting against the captain. He managed this by threatening to reveal that his family was responsible for atrocities during the occupation of Narn – which would have brough great discrace to his house. This was a complete 180 from the way the Centauri were depicted later in the series.

But it was no biggy, still a good story in the end.
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Old September 19th 07, 16:09   #14
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Re: The Gathering - Vorlon Question

Just for the heck of it, for this thread, I thought I'd post a picture of early production art for the Vorlons.



Seeing those non-glowing, reptilian hands makes me wonder what was originally up with the Vorlons, especially given the description of Vorlons that accompanied that picture in the early production "brochure":

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The secretive Vorlons are a group not to be trusted. A massive power struggle is going on among their upper echelons where advancement is only accomplished by assassination. They seek to eliminate the Earth Alliance and solidify themselves as heads of the Empire.
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Old September 19th 07, 17:30   #15
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Re: The Gathering - Vorlon Question

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So they show up with a fleet, when one Vorlon Transport could have destroyed the entire place without breaking a sweat?
Well, nobody except old enemies (and perhaps old allies, but Humans were neither) really knew the capability of their ships, or their available numbers.

Since the purpose of showing up was in equal part communicating a credible threat, unless they wanted to destroy something as a show of force, they pretty much had to send many ships.

To get the point across.

I guess they figured that firing shots would be a bad idea. By surprising people, it might provoke non-enemies to do something stupid, and could supply updated weapons figures to true enemies, who needn't learn them.

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Old September 19th 07, 18:25   #16
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Re: The Gathering - Vorlon Question

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Well, nobody except old enemies (and perhaps old allies, but Humans were neither) really knew the capability of their ships, or their available numbers.

Since the purpose of showing up was in equal part communicating a credible threat, unless they wanted to destroy something as a show of force, they pretty much had to send many ships.

To get the point across.

I guess they figured that firing shots would be a bad idea. By surprising people, it might provoke non-enemies to do something stupid, and could supply updated weapons figures to true enemies, who needn't learn them.
Yeah, that's true, plus showing up with a fleet like they did, might cause some to underestimate the capability of their ships in the future (which is like having another weapon in your bag). The thing is, I'm viewing their show of force in "The Gathering" from the perspective of someone who's seen what the Vorlons did before they went off with Lorien and the other first one races at the end of "Into the Fire", not someone on B5 in "The Gathering".
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Old September 20th 07, 01:23   #17
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Re: The Gathering - Vorlon Question

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Well, nobody except old enemies (and perhaps old allies, but Humans were neither) really knew the capability of their ships, or their available numbers.

Since the purpose of showing up was in equal part communicating a credible threat, unless they wanted to destroy something as a show of force, they pretty much had to send many ships.

To get the point across.
That is the way I see it. As a wise one once said, "if you are making a point, why not make it so no one can misunderstand it? Send them all."

The idea that the Vorlons were "using" the Narn for their own purposes is far more credible than the reverse. Remember how G'Kar has all that info from the Vorlons on their intentions and desires? That isn't credible unless the Vorlons want an excuse to arrive in overwhelming force, to give their ambassador some street cred. The whole "assassination" thing was a Vorlon plot, I think, and they had no idea they were involving the Sinclair.
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Old September 20th 07, 02:05   #18
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Re: The Gathering - Vorlon Question

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{snip}The whole "assassination" thing was a Vorlon plot, I think, and they had no idea they were involving the Sinclair.
Possibly but the opposite also works. The Vorlons were testing to see how good their new weapon - Babylon 5 - and the Sinclair were.
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Old September 20th 07, 03:14   #19
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Re: The Gathering - Vorlon Question

Testing, how? But a show of force? Or do you mean they would have started to fire?

I thought the Vorlons were quite wary of interfering with "The One". For good reason: who knows what might shift just the right thing in just the right way could shift him off of his path?

I just don't see them starting to fire on the station, to "test it and Sinclair".
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Old September 20th 07, 04:05   #20
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Re: The Gathering - Vorlon Question

What, did my posts suddenly turn invisible or something?

The Vorlons didn't know about Sinclair! The Great Maker said so! End of story! If it's illogical, take it up with him.
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