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Old June 17th 07, 22:30   #21
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Re: First Ones Technology

The point still stands though that if a stealth bomber with no pilot was found by a handful of people from Ancient Greece they would have no idea what to do with it. They couldn't integrate it with thier technology because they wouldnt have the first idea how to do so. Thats what Vorlon Tech should be to the younger races....times a thousand.
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Old June 17th 07, 22:38   #22
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Re: First Ones Technology

But what if those people from Ancient Greece were genetically "modified" to "instinctively" know that this is a flying machine? And what if that fighter plane were programmed to be used by just such an individual (auto nativation motivated by pilot intent, somehow) then it gets to be a different story.

Just because Lyta said she was one of the "big ones" made in a worst-case scenario doesn't mean that was the extent of their genetic tampering with the human race.

The Shadow Ships, in particular, strike me as that. Maybe the technology is beyond, well beyond, us... but the ship sure knew how to grab and use an occupant to go about its business.
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Old June 18th 07, 04:04   #23
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Re: First Ones Technology

I tend to think of the First One's tech advancement a bit like an upside-down "L" (Gamma?). There are times of massive advancement and then long lulls where there is little noticable advancement.

We (the humans) probably had more than a few "helping hands" along the way to understanding advanced tech (in the B5 universe) because we've alreay had the Shadows upgrading our tech for us, we've got the Minbari to lend an ocassional hand, I'm sure that there are more TP weapons out there that might be a little less devoted to their former masters than Lyta was (and some that might even be fueling things with a grudge about being abandoned after the war) and there are even Technomages that could decide that it was a worthy pursuit as well.

I believe that it was in B5 that it was said that "humans build communities" or some such. So it stands to reason that we've found workarounds for integrating other techs with our own. Our enthusiasm and curiousity have enabled us to fly further and soar higher than most of the other younger races.

As for the Greeks and a stealth fighter...probably not. I don't think that the Greeks had a frame of reference that would allow for radar-invisible flying machines. Give one an M-16 or a car (and the opportunity to see what it does) and see what happens, though. But (B5) humanity does have a frame of reference for many of the pieces of tech that we've found. We know it works. We know what it does. Now we just have to push enough buttons to make it do it again!
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Old June 18th 07, 16:12   #24
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Re: First Ones Technology

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Originally Posted by Pinky Narfanek View Post
As for the Greeks and a stealth fighter...probably not. I don't think that the Greeks had a frame of reference that would allow for radar-invisible flying machines. Give one an M-16 or a car (and the opportunity to see what it does) and see what happens, though. But (B5) humanity does have a frame of reference for many of the pieces of tech that we've found. We know it works. We know what it does. Now we just have to push enough buttons to make it do it again!
The Greeks did not like getting their hands dirty, they would not have know what to do with a M-16. The Greeks were philosophers but not scientists or engineers. The Romans would soon learn what a M-16 would do for them.
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Old June 18th 07, 17:36   #25
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Re: First Ones Technology

Well, the case of Archimedes from Syracuse does speak somewhat contrary to that. He was well halfway to understanding simple energy weapons, even if the only available power source was the Sun.

Given a rifle, they certainly wouldn't have reverse engineered trinitrotoluene... but they could have started making steam catapults, or if they'd have been lucky enough to know a quick-burning powder, then crude gunpowder cannons.

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Old June 18th 07, 18:34   #26
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Re: First Ones Technology

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Well, the case of Archimedes from Syracuse does speak somewhat contrary to that. He was well halfway to understanding simple energy weapons, even if the only available power source was the Sun.
Syracuse is in Sicily at the foot of Italy. Archimedes fought the Romans so he is only just a Greek.
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Old June 18th 07, 18:55   #27
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Re: First Ones Technology

Try telling me that the Spartans didn't like to get their hands dirty.
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Old June 18th 07, 21:42   #28
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Re: First Ones Technology

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Try telling me that the Spartans didn't like to get their hands dirty.
Definitely, they had slaves for that. The Spartans did their own fighting but everything else was the absolute minimum. The Spartans had a very spartan life style.
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Old June 19th 07, 16:20   #29
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Re: First Ones Technology

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The point still stands though that if a stealth bomber with no pilot was found by a handful of people from Ancient Greece they would have no idea what to do with it. They couldn't integrate it with thier technology because they wouldnt have the first idea how to do so. Thats what Vorlon Tech should be to the younger races....times a thousand.
...except that the Vorlons were working with the Minbari at the time when the Whitestars were being designed and built. They weren't available to work on the Victory Class destroyers and that's why they didn't get the self-healing hull tech of the Whitestar, instead opting for a more traditional armor albeit with some Minbari crystaline tech.
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Old June 19th 07, 16:27   #30
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Re: First Ones Technology

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Definitely, they had slaves for that. The Spartans did their own fighting but everything else was the absolute minimum. The Spartans had a very spartan life style.
Yes, yes, they had the Helots to do the farming for them -- but they weren't exactly the philosophers you claimed all Greeks were.

Look, you're stereotyping wildly; some Greeks were quite practical, hands-on guys, and some weren't. It's just we usually hear about the ones who weren't because they were the only ones with the time to write things down.
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