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Old December 3rd 06, 17:58   #21
Dayton3
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Re: B5 - Thirdspace

I loved Thirdspace. More than "In The Beginning" in some ways. One thing I like was that it was a very "linear" story. With only Lyta recounting the Vorlons mistake with the artifact being out of the main story.

And the battle at the end is simply outstanding by any standard.

Who can't love a story featuring aliens that look like H.R. Geigerish/fleas two stories high.

And once again, gotta love Sheridans patented solution to big problems.

That is "NUKEM"!!!
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Old December 3rd 06, 18:10   #22
KoshN
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Re: B5 - Thirdspace

Dayton3, why's your avatar stretched vertically? Sheridan spent some time on the rack?
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Old December 3rd 06, 18:44   #23
Dayton3
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Re: B5 - Thirdspace

Not a clue
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Old December 3rd 06, 20:31   #24
Joseph DeMartino
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Re: B5 - Thirdspace

Quote:
Dayton3, why's your avatar stretched vertically? Sheridan spent some time on the rack?
Could also be squished horizontally, which I think more likely. Either way the oiriginal image does not fit the fixed, squarish, dimensions of the box set aside for avatars, so it has been distorted to fit. I think there is actually an option in the custom avatar screen for either cropping or shrinking the image to fit while maintainng aspect ratio or keeping the height or width an distorting the image. (I don't use a custom avatar and it has been years since I've had a reason to even look at that screen, though, so I could be wronge.)

Regards,

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Old December 3rd 06, 20:46   #25
KoshN
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Re: B5 - Thirdspace

Quote:

I don't use a custom avatar and it has been years since I've had a reason to even look at that screen, though, so I could be wrong.
Yeah, well, you picked a really good one from the get go.

Lemme look into getting a proper screengrab for him. (I typed this at 4:46PM, and at 4:56PM I got called out to work. Figures.)
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Old December 5th 06, 00:32   #26
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Re: B5 - Thirdspace

I give up. Every time I look at the above post or try to get started and set up for the screengrab, I get called out to work. Just happened for the third time. The second and third time happened within a minute of setting up. This is not meant to be. Somebody else is going to have to get it for you.
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Old December 24th 06, 21:57   #27
puzzle
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Re: B5 - Thirdspace

I had previosly watched this story many years ago, on television. But yesterday I finally received a DVD, and re-watched it yesterday night.

The story is simple, but you can't tell a complex story in a single movie. In my humble opinion, the story is good enough... believable enough to draw my interest.

The only major point which doesn't sound entirely believable, are Vorlon standards of engineering. If you build a machine to access an unknown space, why give the machine such autonomy? Why give it resilience and capability to heal, if you might have to shut it down on failure? Why not have an OFF switch exposed?

One explanation is immense confidence in one's powers, and Vorlons of that period probably had immense confidence. It possibly happened before they had met anyone equal to themselves, neither Shadows, other First Ones, nor the creature called Lorien.

Perhaps they had met nobody capable of telling "thanks, but our own tools seem better at this" or answering "sorry, but have other passtimes" to their proposal of spreading forth order. (Perhaps even the order they spread back then... did not stand opposite to liberty and change, but took that meaning later, trying to withstand regular deconstruction by Shadows?)

This possibility (of the artifact predating Vorlon contact with anyone equal) sounds unlikely if we trust Ivanova's words about "carbon dating" the artifact to over a million years. After all, we know of Delenn's statement, presumably learnt from Kosh, that Vorlons and Shadows had battled each other over millions of years.

However, the artifact being truly ancient (perhaps fom the relative youth of Vorlon civilization) could be plausible if Ivanova is quoting an age determined with incorrect methods, and vastly understating it. After all, radioactive carbon is not suitable for dating over millions of years. At best tens of thousands, in a known environment. If environment was hyperspace, the dating methods available to people on B5 could lie.

The other explanation of course, would be that Thirdspace aliens and Vorlons acting under their control, foreseeing the possibility of getting beaten back, or someone stopping their gate yet not quite destroying it, modified the machine to be resilient, to power itself from any energy source, and to restart automatically.

I wonder which is more likely?

Either way, the story realistically tells of hurry and greed overriding caution, putting excess charge behind a shot meant to be boosted by cautious curiosity alone.

As for curiosity, I rather like this description of it:

Quote:
"I know. So it will take us a little longer. But we'll get there."
"May I assume that this has nothing to do with you wanting to be the first to unlock whatever secrets this thing brings with it?"
"Me? When have you ever known me to have a personal agenda?"
"But John... whenever something comes into our proximity that has to do with the unknown, your eyes light up like two tiny suns. And do you know what words those two tiny lights spell out?"
"What?"
"Mine! Mine, mine, mine, mine, mine!'"
"Oh, that's a lie!"
"Minbari do not lie."
"Well, then it is slander."
"To be slander, it must be false. That's two down."
"Well then it is... damn inconvenient."
"Truth always is."
Of course, that's only half of the scene. It ain't complete without seeing the person who speaks and her manner of presenting the question. It is truly difficult to tell how John Sheridan manages to avoid vaporizing when exposed to such a high dose of cute smiles.

Last edited by puzzle; December 24th 06 at 22:11.
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Old December 26th 06, 23:36   #28
puzzle
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Re: B5 - Thirdspace

Actually, speaking of Sheridan's patented solution to problems...

...I started thinking of a cleaner solution. Minbari cruisers appear to have traction fields (referring to the incident with the Grey Council ship and Sinclair's fighter). Centauri cruisers seem to have something similar too (referring to the bombardment of Narn cities).

Recipe:

1. Visit nearest asteroid field, grab a ship-sized rock
2. Jump into hyperspace with this new toy
3. Jump out at a point which puts the artifact between Epsilon 3 and the toy
4. Push the soft toy towards Epsilon 3
5. Keep pushing it, just in case gravity falls short
6. Jump out
7. Gravity usually doesn't malfunction
8. <sorry, we can't hear your transmission, we're having a gigaton blast>

Gravity-assisted collisions with a long acceleration path can yield a pretty scary amount of energy. If the target is static, and a suitable rock exists nearby, you have a good chance of rigging up a planetkiller with pretty crude tech.

You'd have to be pretty quick at locating and towing a suitable rock, though. Especially if it's heavy and can't be towed fast.

But it's a lot more cozy than having to lug a damn briefcase nuke into the friendly company of five-meter flying fleas, while hoping someone doesn't accidentally incinerate you on your way there, or the fleas don't eat you for breakfast.

The nuclear bomb, now that would probably work alright, especially if it's got anti-tamper devices. But if it's got them, you'd have to worry about the fleas tampering with it before you get clear, and blowing you up too.

Clearly, a cleaner solution would be very preferable.

Last edited by puzzle; December 27th 06 at 00:01.
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Old December 27th 06, 00:54   #29
Joseph DeMartino
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Re: B5 - Thirdspace

The Centauri used "mass drivers" against the Narn. These appear to be a kind of linear accelerator. You put a big chunk of rock with a decent metal contact inside a serious magnetic field and charge the puppy up and let fly - huge accelerations, no chemicals or nuclear rockets required. NASA has noodled around with similar ideas for mining the Moon and getting the extracted materials into orbit (where it could be smelted with giant mylar mirrors and separated by being spun within another magnetic field.) You could also build an accelerator on the surface of an asteroid and use it to both eject loose rock and other debris from on-going mining operations, but also use it as reaction mass to move the asteriod (slowly but steadily) towards your markets on Mars or in the Earth-Moon system.

The Centauri probably just grabbed chunks of asteroid debris (some of it created by slicing up bigger rocks) in the Narn system and hauled it to their accelerators by more conventional means, towed behind smaller ships or carried with the hulls of larger cargo ships.

Regards,

Joe
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Old December 27th 06, 14:12   #30
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Re: B5 - Thirdspace

And if you watch that ep where they bombed the Narn homeworld, it seemed as if they kept the rocks coming fast and furious, like they had hundreds of them. Makes one wonder how they were able to pluck so many of them and transport them to Narn.
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