Holllllleeeeeeeee FRACK. I just watched this episode. I was utterly speechless. It was hard enough watching Cally almost ice her and her son, but when Tory took that child and spaced Cally, God, it was just heart-wrenching. I also liked Cally a lot. I think the writers just didn't know exactly what to do with her after she got pregnant and had a baby. But, I still liked her character. Nobody can say, "you FRACKIN' CYLON" with as much venom and hatred as she can.
Tory is scary. She's embracing her cylon status a little too quickly and intimately, I think. First she's crying her eyes out while Baltar is borking her, now she's hitting on Chief and spacing people. She'll be the first to go if they realize a cylon is on board. She'll probably be the first named and dealt with.
I don't know about Tory. I think she's feeling free and being a cylon allows her to finally be that. I don't know that she's necessarily evil though. I do believe that if one of the final 5 dies, she'll most likely be it. But we all know that character arcs in BSG can alter significantly and quickly depending on events. So...I don't really want to hazard a guess as to where Tory is going right now. Her actions to save the 2nd hybrid child made sense from a cylon point of view. I also think she will be busted for spacing Cally. Someone, most likely Tyrel, will start to put the pieces together. Think about it, if Cally had spaced herself, then the key would be inside the airlock. But with the airlock sealed after Cally was spaced, there would be no way for Tory to get the key back in the airlock's controls. Also, how is the child explained? Did Tory claim to find him? What is Tory's story of what happened? We haven't heard that yet. And if Tyrel finds out it was Tory, then it becomes personal, cylon to cylon. And that...intrigues me.
Best part of the entire episode!
I agree it was definitely a great moment! I'm still wondering where this will go and how the centurions will move forward.
Am I the only one who noted the very important line that Cavil said? When Boomer (who I think is now having second thoughts about siding with Cavil) was worried about their souls? Cavil said to let THEIR god sort them out and then went on to say we're machines, we don't have immortal souls. This shows a fundamental rift within the idealogy of the cylons that apparently has always been there. That line was very important.
I kind of enjoyed the whole Starbuck/Anders thing. That whole "I dare you to make me feel something" was kind of hot. Yeah! GET IT ON! I don't think he's letting her shit on him, I think that he's still a bit lost about who he is and she's already told him that if he was a cylon, she'd put a bullet between his eyes. She's all he's got, I think, besides his cylon compatriots, which he doesn't seem to chummy with.
As for Kara herself, she is off her rocker a bit. I am adament that she's not a cylon. Something else has happened to her. The alien thing in side her is probably some kind of tracking device. =)
This has been brought up a lot on the BSG boards, the Ship of Lights. Though the episode has been referred to as one of the biggest POS ideas in original BSG history, they could redo it. Moore also stated in some interview, that he'd love to redo that whole concept. So, that could very well be it. That's why I think Starbuck is not a cylon. I think it's something else. Ship of lights has a nice spot in my top ideas/theories.
Alien thing inside her? What alien thing? Did I miss something?
I was amazed not only at how many Adama sent with Kara but how many important characters. I don't think they're any too happy with Kara right now. No she's not a cylon at all and as for the ship of lights idea, I don't think that's it. Not sure where you were referring to, Alluveal, in regards to RM saying he would like to redo that concept?
All I recall ever reading from RM was that there would be no other aliens ever in this series, only humans and cylons. Now if he redoes the concept within the confines of what he's established that could be interesting.
As I stated before, the hybrids seem to have some level of precognition. I think the hybrids are who's really pulling the strings here. Hell, the first hybrid was seen by the old centurions as a god. There's something in that...I'm telling you.
It is possible that Kara met some wormhole phenomenon that messed with time. To her that journey was only about 6 hours, but she had been gone for over 2 months. You go messing with time like that and it could well have affected her ship's apparent age. Remember, they verified that the numbers on the engines were the same...it was the same ship.
Besides, if these "light beings", which I agree were the dumbest idea the original series ever had, were good, then why is Kara seen by the first hybrid as this bringer of doom to the human race? Though, I have another interpretation of that line anyway; Kara will spell the end of the human race as they know it. She is the key to ushering in the new human/cylon race somehow. Maybe, maybe not, but it's worth a think.
As for when they find earth...I do believe that the concept of "it's all happened before. It will all happen again," is very important in attempting to understand at what point in earth's history they will eventually find it. I have often thought that earth was not a colony but was the first homeworld and that the 13th colony was the move from earth to Kobol, not the other way around, though it was said during the time on Kobol that the 13th tribe had left some few years before the other tribes in an attempt to avoid the bloodshed they knew was coming. Could that group have been looking for the original earth and the texts became crossed somehow? It's an interesting idea anyway.
As for the cylons being older, that's not possible since we know that in the new series we will see the birth of the cylons as we know them and that takes place 50 years in the past and we know that the first cylon war was only 40 years in the past. Could there have been some long ago previous cylon-esque creation and rebellion that plays into all of this? Well, yes..."this has all happened before and it will all happen again." But how the cylons know more about the holy texts is still a bit of a mystery, however, we don't know that they haven't spent a great deal of time on Kobol during those 40 years of silence. Who knows what they learned.
I wanted to see the 3's resurrected this episode. I hope it happens soon. Can never get enough Lucy Lawless. But, the rift is riveting to say the least, and makes me uncomfortable more than anything. Same way I felt when they fast forwarded on New Caprica and it all felt so disjointed and surreal. But, good things came from that. Perhaps from this as well.
I, too, was hoping that we would see the 3's come back in this ep, but I don't think we, the fans, get off that easily (no dirty thoughts on that one you str8 boys). RM has stated that we won't find out who the 5th cylon is until later in the season. I believe the 3's return will play heavily into that revelation; therefore, she can't return until late in the season.
If he was (for argument sake,) the other models don't know who the other 5 are--they have either had their programming erased on that level, or they were programmed without that knowledge? Not sure. She wouldn't have recognized him. She didn't recognize Chief, Anders, Tigh or Tory.
Two people that RM has been adamant about not being a cylon are Baltar and Kara. So you can at least count them out.
I think you are absolutely right. They are unique. Moore suggested they will "redefine what it is to be a cylon." I also think they are w/o copies. I don't imagine they download just like the others. Perhaps they can be revived with consciousness (memory) in tact or something. I can't wait to find out, though.
I agree, they are unique. With each human-form incarnation, I believe the cylons became more and more human. The final five therefore would represent the pinnacle of their evolution along human lines, with the 5th being the top. I don't think the final five have the same agenda as the other cylons started out with and which Cavil seems to still have. I think the ultimate move on their part is joining the two races, human and cylon, whether they're aware of it or not. I believe that this other plan is what Natalie and her followers (not to mention Athena, originally Boomer and D'anna) are all starting to understand, albeit in pieces and very slowly.
Well, if we go off model numbers, then 1's were made first, then 2's, etc. Let me repost the list of known cylon numbers:
1. Cavil
2. Leoben
3. D'Anna
4. Simon
5. Doral
6. Six
8. Sharon
7 is out of order. Perhaps the first 8 were the same model, leading me to surmise that #7 can download and exists as the others do. 7, 9, 10, 11, and 12 are the final five. The last four are perhaps the different "type" of models. My guess is that they are Chief, Tigh, Tory and Anders. The one that is yet unrevealed is #7 (which is also a very holy and godly number if I remember correctly!)
Interesting point. I hadn't realized that the Sharon's were the 8's until you pointed it out. Tory's model could be the 7's, but it's strange that the power-behind-the-skinjobs would skip a model like that in determining the final five that the others weren't supposed to think about. That could be an important little piece of info going forward. Thanks for pointing it out.
Well, that's my post at the moment.
CE
