Liandra size(spoilers)

Well, we saw the 9 main crew members. I recall seeing 2 people in the bay with the ambassadors besides Tafeek, and one lady in the background on the bridge.

That's 12 people there, and too would assume there are some more engineers (since the engines were a mess) and at least one more healer (like a nurse).



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"We live for the one, we die for the one."

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Natron:
Well, we saw the 9 main crew members. I recall seeing 2 people in the bay with the ambassadors besides Tafeek, and one lady in the background on the bridge.

That's 12 people there, and too would assume there are some more engineers (since the engines were a mess) and at least one more healer (like a nurse).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wonder where else the rest of the "20" would be.

One reason I ask is: how would YOU like to be stuck in a failing engine room with Na'Feel?

What do you suppose the average life span would be for a human confined in a small space with an angry Narn engineer? (EEK to the extreme here)

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"The Bible is a book: it is a good book, but is is not the only book" - Inherit the Wind

"I do not believe that the same God who
has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."—Galileo

hypatia@b5fan.b5lr.com

Te Liandra has some 20 crew. If she had 2 healers on board, it would make 10% of the crew.
An aircraft carrier has some 5000 crewmembers. At 10%, it would have to ship some 500 medics and nurses. Probablly more than almost any hospital in the world.
Seems a little excessive, somehow...

The second crew helping the ambassadors? Could be the ship's cargomaster, pressed into service as a nurse for lack of a better qualified person.
Cheers,

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never surrender, never give up
God, I need a better tag line

Well, I would think there would be at least 2 Healers. If you only have one, and something happens to them, then you have no healer. I would assume that there is another crew member trained slightly in medical. With only 20 people, you would think everyone can do at least a couple things.

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"We live for the one, we die for the one."

Just to be contrary:
Maybe if the ship had SEATBELTS and other obvious safety devices, they wouldn’t need so many healers!

Sorry, but this is one of the consistent “assumptions” that sci-fi series always make. I hate it, because I think seatbelts in cars save many MANY lives.

“It doesn’t look cool enough for us, and we need to throw characters about the place” seems to be the ONLY rational excuse for this.

I am nit-picking here, obviously, since virtually EVERY sci-fi show falls to this low standard.

Maybe the fans who are counted by Nielson just don't go for it.

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"The Bible is a book: it is a good book, but is is not the only book" - Inherit the Wind

"I do not believe that the same God who
has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."—Galileo

hypatia@b5fan.b5lr.com

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Natron:
Well, I would think there would be at least 2 Healers. If you only have one, and something happens to them, then you have no healer. I would assume that there is another crew member trained slightly in medical. With only 20 people, you would think everyone can do at least a couple things.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, I thought about that both times someone from the South Pole base had to be evacutated in very bad times (meaning weather here).

A good point is made that maybe one "doctor" and one "nurse" is all that a crew of 20 would have. Maybe even only a "doctor". Sorry, "healer".

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"The Bible is a book: it is a good book, but is is not the only book" - Inherit the Wind

"I do not believe that the same God who
has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."—Galileo

hypatia@b5fan.b5lr.com

I don't see the problem whit just yelling "Healer!".

After all, doesn't someone in the US military yell "Medic!"? Why should anyone have to remember the name of the nearest doctor/healer?

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- Lars

[This message has been edited by Hyperspace (edited January 24, 2002).]

Good point, Hyperspace. But a usual troop that includes medics usually is a lot larger than 20, right?

I DON'T WANT to nitpick here. I was just thinking that in future episodes of the series (YES I WILL CONTINUE TO ASSUME THIS IS GOING TO BE) I would not be surprised if an engineer's aide or another healer were not to be seen.

I think it only makes sense to focus on the main characters in a very short pilot.

I still want to know, though, if any poor, future-appearing character was forced to live through Na'Feel's engine room problem.

I still would like to know the average life span of a Human in a very small space with an angry Narn.

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"The Bible is a book: it is a good book, but is is not the only book" - Inherit the Wind

"I do not believe that the same God who
has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."—Galileo

hypatia@b5fan.b5lr.com

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> I still would like to know the average life span of a Human in a very small space with an angry Narn. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably longer than a Centauri stuck in a small space with an angry Narn.

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"We live for the one, we die for the one."

There is an obvious answer to where at least Part of the crew is:

Sleeping.

Unless you assume they just pull over and Park when everyone gets tired, they need At Least Two People for every critical position.

Half the crew on Watch, the other half eating, sleeping and taking showers.

A more realistic watch schedule is Three underway watches.

The US Navy has learned from Long Experience that 3 underway watch sections is the minimum safe number.
Less than that and people start getting punchy from staying awake too long.
This causes embarassing accidents.
Like running into other ships.

During Battle Stations, of course, everyone has a job.
The rest of the time, the ship would need to be able to be run by 5 or 6 people.

Engineer,
Pilot/helm/navigator,
Sensor/radar operator,
Communication watch,
Officer of the Deck (whoever is in charge when the Captain is not on the bridge)

That's the minimum. These 5 positions require 15 people.

Then, you have the Captain and such Staff positions as the Healer.

Healer is on call 24/7 and probably doubles as environmental officer. IOW, she makes sure the Air & Water stay fresh.

Captain is also on call 24/7 just by the nature of the job.

That leaves openings for about 3 more people.
Weapons specialist, we know.
Infiltration specialist.
How about a Cook? Not necessary since they could take turns, but possible.

It's also likely that, particularly with such a small crew, each person is trained in at least 3 different jobs.
Both for backup and because it'd be part of the path to Advancement.

Again, going to the USN model, the path to promotion leads through Each department on the ship.

New officers usually start out in Engineering.
They move from there into either Navigation, Deck or Weapons.
Sequence isn't set because they Will serve in Every department sooner or later.
Then, they move into more general ship's management, usually in charge of whichever department they showed the most aptitude for.
Eventually, they become someone's Second in Command.
If they don't screw That up, they get their own ship.

It's not unreasonable to assume that any organization operating ships will come up with some similar plan.
Captains have to be able to "talk the talk" with everyone, so they will spend time in Every department before moving up the ladder.

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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

[This message has been edited by bakana (edited January 25, 2002).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darth Vader:
I thought a ship the size of the Liandra was to small to have a jump engine

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A) It did have a jump engine. A crewmember says to the captin that the jump engien was down.

B) We do not know the size of the Liandra. I tend to think that it is about the same size as a white star.

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darth Vader:
I thought a ship the size of the Liandra was to small to have a jump engine

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This comes from Sheridan having never seen a ship as small as a Whitestar having jump engines. It turns out that the Minbari have ships smaller than the Whitestar that also have jump engines. Sheridan just didn't know about them at the time he saw the Whitestar prototype.

Note, I'm guessing that the Liandra is smaller than a Whitestar, since the Liandra has a crew of 20, and IIRC, the Whitestar has a crew of about 100. No, I don't remember where I saw that figure, and it might not be canon.

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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

Crusade (reruns) starting 03/26/2002 at 1PM EST on the Sci-Fi Channel

http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

JMS had an answer for the Sheridan comment as well... which is very real, when you come to think about it:
How much would Earth know about Minbari Tech?

Question on Usenet:
>Liandra is 20 years old in 2264, so it was built in 2244, before the
>Earth-Minbari war. It's a small vessel and yet it *has* jump engines.
>Seems odd, since Sheridan thought it was a big deal when he found out that
>the Whitestar, another small vessel, had jump engines (2260).

"He also didn't know everything about Minbari ships and classes."
JMS

Regards,

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Diogenes
Babcom newsletter
layout & design
www.robertshome.org/babcom
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I thought it was Delenn who said the Whitestar was the smallest jump-capable ship the Minbari had ever made? She could have been hiding things from him of course, but I thought she made the comment. I could be wrong however, as it's been a long time since I've seen that episode.

Oh, I can't wait for those DVDs.

*sigh*

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Alec McClymont
3D Artist - GVFX
"Something is only impossible until it's not."

I thought a ship the size of the Liandra was to small to have a jump engine

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"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want
to test a man's character, give him power."
-- Abraham Lincoln

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slade:
I thought it was Delenn who said the Whitestar was the smallest jump-capable ship the Minbari had ever made? She could have been hiding things from him of course, but I thought she made the comment. I could be wrong however, as it's been a long time since I've seen that episode.

Oh, I can't wait for those DVDs.

*sigh*

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

She was not lying, at the time it was true (5 years earlier). Computers are not the only machines to get upgrades. Lets use the ever popular B-52 example. The B-52 originly had propeller engines. Later they were upgraded to have jet engiens, in flight refuling, GPS, electronic navigation systems, radar, electronic targeting, and the abuility to fire cruise missiles. So why is it so hard to accept that the Liandra was upgraded with a jump engien and an additional power supply so it can be used.

Even if the Liandra was the exact same length width and hight as a white star the white star is still smaller. Why? Most of the white star`s design is empty space.

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Xzyl:
She was not lying, at the time it was true (5 years earlier). Computers are not the only machines to get upgrades. Lets use the ever popular B-52 example. The B-52 originly had propeller engines. Later they were upgraded to have jet engiens,
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What??? Even the B-47 had jet engines. IIRC, the B-36 was the last to use propeller engines.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Xzyl:
Even if the Liandra was the exact same length width and hight as a white star the white star is still smaller. Why? Most of the white star`s design is empty space.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That depends on just how much bigger the Whitestar is than the Liandra. Also, look at the size of the Whitestar and Liandra interiors (e.g. hallways). The Whitestar has much larger interior spaces.

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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

Crusade (reruns) starting 03/26/2002 at 1PM EST on the Sci-Fi Channel

http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

KoshN you are right, it was the B-36 that had its propeller engiens upgraded to jets. Which still goes with the theme of my post that just because a craft was not origianly designed to have something that does not mean that it could not be upgraded to have that feature later on.

What I ment by the design mostly being empty empty space has do with the fact the white star has no mid section.


[This message has been edited by Xzyl (edited February 05, 2002).]