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Old February 27th 09, 16:54   #841
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Re: Galactica Season 4 (Spoilers Within)

Ben Browder and Claudia Black were on the last season or two of SG-1. That's about all I know about their presence on there. But yeah, it was probably partially to try to bring in the Farscape audience to a different show.
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Old February 27th 09, 16:54   #842
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Re: Galactica Season 4 (Spoilers Within)

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There's a show on after BSG, I think it's one of the Stargates (I never watched any). It has both of them. My DVR sometimes gets a min or two of it, and a few weeks ago I saw this thing and I'm like wtf, is there some new Farscape- WHY DIDN'T MY B5TV NERDS TELL ME?! So did they just lump the Farscape people into some other show thinking, what, no one would notice, or it would be enough to bring the Farscape fans into a completely different show?
Stargate SG-1 S8 ended the original Story arc Ga'ould domination of the Galaxy, and Col/Gen O'Neill finished his time as a regular. S9 and 10 became a new Story Arc revolving around a new "God Race" called the Ori, and had a Merlin/King Arthur theme involving the Ancients. With the new Story Arc, they brought in Ben Browder to lead the team and take over for O'Neill. Claudia Black was just a random Alien woman who joined the team officially eventually. They actually were pretty careful about trying to avoid Farscape comparisons and had Claudia Black's character be closer to Daniel Jacksoin, then to Ben Browder's character. Also, in S10, they brought in Morena Boccarin from Firefly to be Claudia Black's daughter (long story)
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Old February 27th 09, 16:55   #843
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Re: Galactica Season 4 (Spoilers Within)

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So did they just lump the Farscape people into some other show thinking, what, no one would notice, or it would be enough to bring the Farscape fans into a completely different show?
Thats basically it, yes. As I understood it, when some of the original SG1 actors started moving on, they needed to bring in new people to the team, so they went after Ben Browder hoping Farscape fans would watch SG1 to see him in it...and they got Claudia Black as well. From what I can tell they did it ENTIRELY to hope to bring in some new viewers with familiar faces. Their characters in SG1 were different, and there was no romantic involvement between their characters or chemistry. In fact Claudia Black's character was very different than her Farscape one.

So yea, I think they just played one of the oldest tricks in the book.
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Old February 27th 09, 17:00   #844
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Re: Galactica Season 4 (Spoilers Within)

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I'm an American living in Austria, with a discintly English-sounding name, with no German equivalent. People NEVER forget my name.
That's ONE name, not a whole cast's worth.

One or two "unique" names amongst all of the "common" ones is memorable.

Having a couple dozen names which are all unfamiliar to the point of sounding like gibberish becomes difficult and confusing quickly. This is for the same reason that is easy to learn an unfamiliar word, but it is far easier to memorize a paragraph in a language that you are fluant in than one from a completely different language family.

The hardest time I ever had in keeping everyone straight while reading a history was a book called "The Washing of the Spears", which was a history of the Zulu empire focusing on the Zulu War that they fought with the British in 1879. A couple of the Zulu names stuck out and were easy to keep track of (Shaka and Cetswayo are the couple that I can still give you, years later). However, overall I had a hell of a time keeping all of the Zulus straight. The Europeans, with names that fit into the already well formed naming categories in my head, were *much* easier to mentally keep track of.

A lot of the confusion that does come up with "common" names has to do with the tendancy of them to overlap. You meet a number of Johns or Marys in any given week and all of the contexts start to get mixed up in your head. You notice that BSG does not bring this into play. There are no other Karas or Lees or Sharons (aside from the other 8's; "Sharon" always translates into the same face) or Sauls; just the one of each name.


Star Wars was easier because they had a smaller cast of characters whose names mattered and the smaller cast size allowed them to stick to single syllables for a lot of them. They *still* used a scattering of existing names, and others that were direct plays on English words (the bounty hunter who would sell out anybody for the right is named Greed-o, for example; the last name of the loner smuggler is "Solo"; it has been pointed out that it not exactly a *huge* stretch from "Darth Vader" to "Dark Father").


As for Aeryn Sun: That's a really poor example for your side of this debate. In the first place, when you hear her first name in the show, it *is* an already familiar real world name. It just turns out that for the alien character they made up an alternate spelling. Her last name is a simple everyday word in English, not even an alternate spelling. Both said together become a sound-alike for an English phrase that is not entirely without meaning: "Air and Sun" (since "swallowing" the D in "and" is very common among native Aglophones, depending on what sound starts the following word).

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Old February 27th 09, 17:11   #845
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Re: Galactica Season 4 (Spoilers Within)

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I'm rather pleased that they aren't falling back on the ole sci-fi cliche of making up goofy, silly, unique-just-to-be-unique names in BSG. It's not about the names to me. It's about the story and character.

Maybe we can find another topic to stumble into after tonight's ep.


eeesh.
The ole clichee of .. diferent cultures having different names?

I think it could also be a cultural factor - for me as someone living in a place where I'll be in three different countries with distinct languages and distinct names within an hour's drive, it feels pretty goofy to tune in on a show that's supposed to play in a faraway time in a faraway place, and to presented with a culture more heterogenous than the 50 mile radius around me.

It's true that it absolutely doesn't matter. But I do respect it when a writer creating a universe puts some actual thought into the universe being created - it adds a lot to the sense of realism a show, book, or series has. Obviously every righter won't have the time and knowledge to do what Tolkien did when creating Middle Earth, but even Firefly is highly sophisticated in comparison to new BSG, here.
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Old February 27th 09, 17:22   #846
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Re: Galactica Season 4 (Spoilers Within)

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That's ONE name, not a whole cast's worth.
I very much doubt my name is the first strange, foreign name such people have learned.

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Star Wars was easier because they had a smaller cast of characters whose names mattered and the smaller cast size allowed them to stiuck to single syllables for a lot of them. They *still* used a scattering of existing names, and others that were direct plays on English words (the bounty hunter who would sell out anybody for the right is named Greed-o, for example; the last name of the loner smuggler is "Solo"; it has been pointed out that it not exactly a *huge* stretch from "Darth Vader" to "Dark Father").
OK, take Lord of the Rings then - which has a HUGE set of characters, compared to both Star Wars and BSG, with very few of them based on languages the reader might be familiar with, lest he by chance knows Finnish or Welsh. I, for one, had no problem keeping the characters apart in LOTR.

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As for Aeryn Sun: That's a really poor example for your side of this debate. In the first place, when you hear her fist name in the show, it *is* an already familiar real world name. It just turns out that for the alien character they made up an alternate spelling. Her last name is a simple everyday word in English, not even an alternate spelling. Both said together become a sound-alike for an English phrase that is not entirely without meaning: "Air and Sun" (since "swallowing" the D in "and" is very common among native Aglophones, depending on what sound starts the following word).
That's what I get for taking an example from a show I had never seen .. I was not aware of the exact pronounciation of her name, or the "Air and Sun" bit.
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Old February 27th 09, 17:34   #847
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Re: Galactica Season 4 (Spoilers Within)

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The hardest time I ever had in keeping everyone straight while reading a history was a book called "The Washing of the Spears", which was a history of the Zulu empire focusing on the Zulu War that they fought with the British in 1879. A couple of the Zulu names stuck out and were easy to keep track of (Shaka and Cetswayo are the couple that I can still give you, years later). However, overall I had a hell of a time keeping all of the Zulus straight. The Europeans, with names that fit into the already well formed naming categories in my head, were *much* easier to mentally keep track of.
Not being familiar with Zulu in the slightest, I have a hard time making arguments here. I'll just say that for me, names in some cultures are a lot easier to capture than in others. I had an incredibly easy time learning words, and names, in Estonian, for example, also if this is a language not related to anything I speak - names and words are generally easy and simple, yet vary from one another. Also if I Russian is related to English, and also if I knew all the Russian names, I can't keep ANYONE apart, though, in Russia, where names are long, ugly, and very similar to one another nevertheless (Vassiliy Vadimovich, Vadim Vasilievich, Vladimir Fyodorovich, ...)

(Your point about overlapping names is taken, though, which is more the problem with Russian names than anything else)

Same thing happens for me in Sci-Fi and Fantasy too, for example - keeping all the G'Whatevers apart on B5 was a lot harder than keeping the Hobbits apart on LOTR.
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Old February 27th 09, 18:34   #848
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Re: Galactica Season 4 (Spoilers Within)

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The ole clichee of .. diferent cultures having different names?

I think it could also be a cultural factor - for me as someone living in a place where I'll be in three different countries with distinct languages and distinct names within an hour's drive, it feels pretty goofy to tune in on a show that's supposed to play in a faraway time in a faraway place, and to presented with a culture more heterogenous than the 50 mile radius around me.
It's true that it absolutely doesn't matter. But I do respect it when a writer creating a universe puts some actual thought into the universe being created - it adds a lot to the sense of realism a show, book, or series has. Obviously every righter won't have the time and knowledge to do what Tolkien did when creating Middle Earth, but even Firefly is highly sophisticated in comparison to new BSG, here.[/quote]

You make a good point, for someone who is concerned with the multi-cultural aspect of inclusiveness in scifi. However, this series is essentially an Anglo-English production picked up by the SciFi channel for mainly an original broadcast in the US. We're a fickle people. We wouldn't tolerate Barliman Butterbur as a BSG character name.

They also try to make some connections to the 13th tribe by pure force of naming. Adama, Athena etc. Of course, they also want the male audience between 14-29, who will actually be watching the SciFi Channel. Marketing to those boys is a primary concern as well.

And no one would compare BSG to Tolkien, unless they were Eurotrash like you.
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Old February 27th 09, 18:55   #849
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Re: Galactica Season 4 (Spoilers Within)

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And no one would compare BSG to Tolkien, unless they were Eurotrash like you.
Aww. You called me Eurotrash!

*smooches*



The one thing in this whole discussion I've forgotten, regarding how we all remember names, and how it might or might not be easier to remember characters by familiar names .. at least I, on BSG, *don't* remember bloody anyone by their forenames. I remember everyone that has a callsign by the callsign. I don't know about anybody else, but I can't, off the top of my head, tell you what Hotdog's name is.
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Old February 28th 09, 01:12   #850
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Re: Galactica Season 4 (Spoilers Within)

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I very much doubt my name is the first strange, foreign name such people have learned.
But, most of the time, you probably are the only one among the people that they meet at that party, or in that office, or whatever. Within the context where you are "filed" in their brain, you are unique, and that tends to be remembered.

However, if *all* of the names are "different", then none of them are unique any more, and they become harder to keep track of.



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Same thing happens for me in Sci-Fi and Fantasy too, for example - keeping all the G'Whatevers apart on B5 was a lot harder than keeping the Hobbits apart on LOTR.
But that's what would happen if BSG did the "realistic" thing and started building their names out of clusters of phonemes typical of each of the 12 Colonies. All of the Caprican names would blend together like all of the Narn names do, and all of the Geminon names would blend like all of the Minbari names do.

In fact, going back to LotR, all of those relatively similar Elvin names do the same thing, as do the similar Rohirim names, etc. (Obviously, the primary couple characters from each group, whose names get repeated hundreds of times, get remembered. But the rest of them .....)

The reason that I think the Hobbits are the easiest group to keep mentally organized in the Trilogy is precisely because they are the race / nation with the most English naming group: Sam, Merry, Pippin ...... Baggins, Brandywine ...... etc.
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