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Old May 10th 07, 15:26   #11
PillowRock
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Re: Sci-Fi Debate

To me, the categories are not mutually exclusive. I'm not *just* talking about SF and fantasy, but it certainly applies to them.

To my mind, if it includes fictional science or technology then it is science fiction. Star Wars certainly qualifies by that definition. However, Star Wars also does contain some fantasy elements.

I've heard some people insist that the *only* things that are "science fiction" are those directly center on any and all elements of not-yet-real science or technology that are present ...... and do include a reasonable amount of depth in explaining that science / tech. By that definition there is almost no space based "science fiction". Very little of it deals with their interstellar tavel / faster-than-light drives and such with enough direct detail to meet the criteria.

I disagree with that take. I consider that to be the sub-genre of "hard science fiction" rather than the entirety of "science fiction".

Different people have different opinions about what those definitions should be and what all falls under the umbrella of "science fiction" ........ obviously, or we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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Old May 10th 07, 15:39   #12
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Re: Sci-Fi Debate

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and yet all Sci-Fi genres I can think of right now, sans Firefly, use it (faster than light).
Well, not really. At least not by my definition of "science fiction" (see above).

Most of Jules Verne's writing is "science fiction". The fact that we have since caught up with most of the things that he speculated about (with the notable exception of the titular gadget in "The Time Machine"), is irrelevent. As he was writing it, it was science fiction.

Mary Shelley was writing science fiction when she wrote "Frankenstein". In fact, I've seen pretty good arguments made that this was the first modern science fiction novel.

Plus, of coarse, almost anything set in the future is science fiction because they always have some speculative tech in their futures ..... Minority Report, Blade Runner, Demolition Man, and even the original Rollerball, etc. are all "science fiction" and completely Earth bound.
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Old May 10th 07, 15:50   #13
Alluveal
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Re: Sci-Fi Debate

Galahad wrote:
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I still hate George Lucas for trying to explain the force with science.
God, I do too. What the hell? And the whole immaculate conception/spontaneous conception of Annikan was stupid, imho.

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It is a science fiction with fantasy elements.
Agree with you there.

I think the series that blurs the line the most, IMHO, is the Dune series. That's almost the opposite of Star Wars in that it's Fantasy with sci-fi elements, imho.
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Old May 10th 07, 16:00   #14
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Re: Sci-Fi Debate

There are some guys I work with who are adamant that they hate science fiction. They watch Lost and Heroes though, so I'm loving needling them by pointing out all the sci-fi they're watching at the mo. :^)

According to JMS at different times, either Arthur C. Clarke or Isaac Asimov once said their definition of SF was "Whatever I point to and say, 'That's SF'". Worrying about what category a piece of fiction fits into strikes as a rather dreary and pointless debate.

Of far more importance than whether something's Speculative Fiction, Hard Sci-Fi, Space Opera, Fantasy, Space Fantasy, Alternative History, Horror, Dark Fantasy, Supernatural, or whatever else, is whether it's any good or not. :^)
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Old May 10th 07, 16:06   #15
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Re: Sci-Fi Debate

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...
I think the series that blurs the line the most, IMHO, is the Dune series. That's almost the opposite of Star Wars in that it's Fantasy with sci-fi elements, imho.
Really? I never felt that way. There are obviously aspects of the series that modern science has contradicted (like the cellular race-memory that the Bene Gesserit Reverend Mothers can access), but I definitely always saw it as science fiction. Just science fiction with little focus on technology as opposed to ecology and politics and psychology.
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Old May 10th 07, 18:52   #16
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Re: Sci-Fi Debate

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Originally Posted by Alluveal View Post
Galahad wrote:


God, I do too. What the hell? And the whole immaculate conception/spontaneous conception of Annikan was stupid, imho.



Agree with you there.

I think the series that blurs the line the most, IMHO, is the Dune series. That's almost the opposite of Star Wars in that it's Fantasy with sci-fi elements, imho.
Actually I can't take credit saying any of that... but I do agree with what was said. Trouble with Lucas I believe, is that as he has got older he has believed his own press too much... and wants to take himself and his work a lot more seriously.
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Old May 10th 07, 19:22   #17
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Re: Sci-Fi Debate

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Well, not really. At least not by my definition of "science fiction" (see above).

Most of Jules Verne's writing is "science fiction". The fact that we have since caught up with most of the things that he speculated about (with the notable exception of the titular gadget in "The Time Machine"), is irrelevent. As he was writing it, it was science fiction.
You meant H.G. Wells when referring to that book didn't you
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Old May 10th 07, 21:18   #18
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Re: Sci-Fi Debate

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You meant H.G. Wells when referring to that book didn't you
Sorry. Typing without thinking between test runs at work.
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Old May 11th 07, 00:09   #19
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Re: Sci-Fi Debate

No worries... I did wonder if the confusion came about because Doc Emmett Brown cites Jules Verne as his favourite author in the Back to the Future trilogy... and that obviously centres around a time machine. ;-)
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Old May 11th 07, 00:12   #20
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Re: Sci-Fi Debate

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There are some guys I work with who are adamant that they hate science fiction. They watch Lost and Heroes though, so I'm loving needling them by pointing out all the sci-fi they're watching at the mo. :^)

According to JMS at different times, either Arthur C. Clarke or Isaac Asimov once said their definition of SF was "Whatever I point to and say, 'That's SF'". Worrying about what category a piece of fiction fits into strikes as a rather dreary and pointless debate.

Of far more importance than whether something's Speculative Fiction, Hard Sci-Fi, Space Opera, Fantasy, Space Fantasy, Alternative History, Horror, Dark Fantasy, Supernatural, or whatever else, is whether it's any good or not. :^)
Indeed, but you see it is a failing of human nature... that we have to packaga things up in nice little boxes. Everything has to fit into a slot or we aren't comfortable with it.

Thats why people who adopt certain behaviour, wear certain clothes or listen to certain music get named Goth or Emo kid, hippie, yuppie or chav.
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