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Old April 25th 19, 04:54   #131
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Re: Game of Thrones, HBO series

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I must admit Jon is my favourite character, so I'd prefer it if he lived, but I accept there's a good chance that he won't. So long as he goes out like a boss, I'll accept it! I wonder though whether dying defeating the Night King is too predictable? I half expect him to beat the Night King, then get shot and killed by accident by Bronn with the crossbow while aiming for Jaime. That would be really shocking but very typical for this show!!
SO WOW ARE WE ON THE SAME PAGE!!!!!

I had a revelation after this week's episode. I now think that Jon defeats the Night King and is immediately killed by a Cersei assassin, perhaps Bronn or Jaqen H'qhar. She has hired mercenaries why not a Faceless Man.

I think it would actually be kind of silly for Jon to end up on the Iron Throne. His story has never gone down that path and now that there is the possibility he impregnated Daenerys with a true Targaryen heir his work here is done, after The Night King is defeated. The point of exposing his true heritage is so that he knows. It is also that Daenerys knows her brother wasn't a monster and the baby she and Jon will have is a Targaryen heir. It is so they know there is a connection that sprung from love. I mean you can see it on Jon's face, he doesn't want the Iron Throne. But he did need to know the truth, just as the audience needed to know.

OKAY LOTS OF SPOILERS AND PREDICTIONS

(Firstly let me say that I think my friend nailed what is coming next, not the battle of Winterfell. He pointed out that next week we'll probably get a Cersei focused episode, aka what she was doing while Winterfell prepared for battle. I hope he is wrong, but it sure would be par-for-the-Game-of-Thrones-course.)

So after Episode Two I'm pretty sure we're about to see a HUGE portion of those we love killed off. I honestly think my brain was in denial. I thought that somehow there would not be this giant clash at Winterfell with so many main characters present. I assumed some of them would be other places. But now I see I am wrong. It is so crazy. With only 4 episodes left how is there going to be this big battle followed by a battle for King's Landing?!?!?!?!?! It makes me think Cersei's mercenaries are waiting nearby to pounce on the survivors. I don't know it just seems like there is soooo much to cover and not enough time to deal with it all. Maybe her mercenaries are nearby and when they see what is happening they will join Winterfell.

So craziest things from Episode Two....

Why not send Bran on the road and lead The Night King away from Winterfell?

But the actual craziest thing is that they were hiding people in THE CRYPT for safety. The CRYPT that is full of DEAD BODIES!!!!!

And OBTW, Where was The Night King on Viserion? Is he hiding for a sneak attack or did he just pop down to King's Landing for a little raid? Seriously, it has to be noteworthy that there was no sign of him in that final shot.

I think we might see a good portion of those drinking around that late night fire killed off.

Brienne - I will be devastated!!!!!, but after Knighthood I think she is done for.
Tormund
Podrick Payne
Davos Seaworth
and maybe even Jaime Lannister

Others I think might be doomed
Jorah Mormont
Theon Greyjoy
Gendry
Grey Worm or Missendi or both
Possibly Varys
Ed
Beric Dondarrian
And after this last episode Sam
Definitely Ghost is a goner. How pathetic that they finally bring him back and he is just in the background?

I hope I am soooo wrong. And I have my doubts, but it seems like I'm going to be right.


And like I said Jon is doomed one way or another. I was pretty sure it was going to be defeating The Night King, but now I think it will be more shocking - like right as they start to celebrate the defeat of The Night King. You know this sounds like what this show does.

Those I think are safe...
Daenerys
Tyrion
Bran
Sansa
Arya
The Hound
Gilly
Sam Jr
Lyanna Mormont

I wonder if we'll see Meera Reed again.

I know we'll see Melisandre again. I hope it is during the battle of the dead - meaning she does some great act of redemption before she is killed. Maybe she went to Esos and gathered and army of followers of The Lord of Light?
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Old April 25th 19, 09:45   #132
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Re: Game of Thrones, HBO series

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Why not send Bran on the road and lead The Night King away from Winterfell?
I know, right? I had that exact same thought! In fact, if Bran knows the Night King is after him, why did he go to Winterfelll at all? Though I guess the AOTD would head there anyway; I mean, they stopped off at the Last Hearth. Have they also gone to Deepwood Motte? It's not on the way between Last Hearth and Winterfell, so presumably the Glovers are still alive?

I'm not sure about Bran/3ER, it feels like he's not telling them everything.

Tinfoil hat time and a few predictions:

Episode 3 is definitely the battle for Winterfell (though if this was the Walking Dead, I'd agree with your friend - we'd probably get half a season about the last night before the battle!). I'm not sure we'll see Kings Landing though. There's a line Sam says in the season premiere, asking whether Dany would give up her crown to save her people. I think she might lead the survivors to Kings Landing in the following episode, where basically Cersei says, I'll let you hide behind the city walls if you surrender to me, bend the knee and give me your dragons. And Dany will have to choose (basically it's no choice at all) and surrender to Cersei, thereby proving she is fit to sit on the Iron Throne.

Or she might turn mad and become the final villain. Or the Night King might turn her into his Night Queen? So many permutations!

I predict that the Night King will kill Jon, Melisandre will turn up after the battle and resurrect him and give him some crucial piece of information that he needs to defeat the AOTD. I'm hoping that the story doesn't just end with one big battle, the goodies win and everyone lives happily ever after. Rather I hope that the solution is like in B5, where the characters have to understand their way out of this situation, and how that understanding leads to a better future. I mean, it's ultimately a conflict between the Lord of Light and the Many-Faced God (death) isn't it? We know the Lord of Light is real, and the AOTD are the embodiment of Death. You can't fight gods, but maybe you can grow beyond them?

I've no idea who is going to die next episode! I'd thought Greyworm was a definite goner, but after his conversation with Missandei last episode, I'm not so sure. That's the wonderful thing, we can speculate and guess but none of us really know!

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Old April 28th 19, 14:47   #133
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Re: Game of Thrones, HBO series

Sorry, I have been in AVENGERS ENDGAME MODE since last Tuesday.

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I'm not sure about Bran/3ER, it feels like he's not telling them everything.
Well I don't know if Bran is holding things back. I don't think Bran gets a clear picture of everything. I think he gets glimpse of things. I think sometimes it happens when they are referenced and sometimes it is random.

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Tinfoil hat time and a few predictions:

Episode 3 is definitely the battle for Winterfell (though if this was the Walking Dead, I'd agree with your friend - we'd probably get half a season about the last night before the battle!). I'm not sure we'll see Kings Landing though. There's a line Sam says in the season premiere, asking whether Dany would give up her crown to save her people. I think she might lead the survivors to Kings Landing in the following episode, where basically Cersei says, I'll let you hide behind the city walls if you surrender to me, bend the knee and give me your dragons. And Dany will have to choose (basically it's no choice at all) and surrender to Cersei, thereby proving she is fit to sit on the Iron Throne.
I definitely agree that they don't seem to have time to do a "Dramatic Pause" episode, but I wouldn't put it past them.

And unfortunately wouldn't Dany be executed as soon as she bent the knee? - But again I wouldn't put it past them.

So if your prediction comes true then how is Cersei defeated? ... (Answer when Arya kills her.)

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Or she might turn mad and become the final villain. Or the Night King might turn her into his Night Queen? So many permutations!
I like these ideas.

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I predict that the Night King will kill Jon, Melisandre will turn up after the battle and resurrect him and give him some crucial piece of information that he needs to defeat the AOTD. I'm hoping that the story doesn't just end with one big battle, the goodies win and everyone lives happily ever after. Rather I hope that the solution is like in B5, where the characters have to understand their way out of this situation, and how that understanding leads to a better future. I mean, it's ultimately a conflict between the Lord of Light and the Many-Faced God (death) isn't it? We know the Lord of Light is real, and the AOTD are the embodiment of Death. You can't fight gods, but maybe you can grow beyond them?
I definitely can't imagine Jon dying and being brought back again, though I wouldn't put it past them with the whole Dondarrian thing.
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Old April 30th 19, 14:33   #134
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Re: Game of Thrones, HBO series

I don't even know what to think now. So many things I loved about Episode Three, what I could see of it - so ridiculously dark and worse streaming it through lousy internet. I am happy about a lot of things, but I honestly feel they copped out on stuff. And again, I have no clue what they do now. What seems inevitable now seems impossible.

Okay this was just a quick not while I had a minute.
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Old April 30th 19, 17:57   #135
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Re: Game of Thrones, HBO series

I was really disappointed by it. It wasn't too dark on my TV, so I don't know if it was just a problem with people's settings on their TV - I thought the episode's cinematography was wonderful. Just a shame about the script.

Where did Melisandre come from? How did anyone on the front lines survive more than five minutes? Why did the Dothraki just charge like that? Where did Ghost go? where did Rheagal go? Why was there no real battle strategy? Why can the Night King do magical things like control the weather and survive dragon fire? After the emphasis on Valyrian steel, why not have some White Walker fights? Why completely ignore all the build up of Jon's arc just to sideline him at the crucial moment? Why didn't Theon just stay beside Bran, he'd be alive now if he had! And how on Earth did Arya (who is way too overpowered, by the way) get past the White Walkers without them noticing (made even more ridiculous by the fact that the Night King did notice her even though she was behind him)? And why should I care about Cersei and Euron being the endgame when they haven't been all that interesting for a while now?

Sorry, I had to get that rant off my chest, but I love Game of Thrones and episode 3 was like a punch in the gut. I've never had a problem with the writing of the series until now, it just felt like they threw out any kind of narrative sense just to have a twist that the writers admit they only thought of a couple of seasons back.

And despite my complaints there were lots of things to love about episode 3. The first 60 minutes were breathtaking. It was totally apocalyptic, nightmare fuel – I was actually scared for the characters as I was watching it. As nonsensical as it was, the Dothraki charge and then their fire-lit Arakhs being snuffed out was bone-chilling. The Unsullied defending the retreat outside Winterfell's walls was incredibly brave. The dragon fight was excellent, and to be fair their plan worked to an extent – they managed to dismount the Night King and get their shot at him with the dragonfire, wasn't their fault he's magically immune! The bit where the Night King raised the dead as Jon chased him was brilliant. But yeah, there were flaws that really soured it, and I really hope on second and third watch I can get over this problems I had with it.

In many ways it reminded me of the Shadow War ending early, and then everyone asked, what then? And what we got then was really excellent, but B5 had skilfully connected the Shadow War and the Earth civil war via the Shadows having their hands in Clark's rise, so it didn't feel like a separate story. Here the AOTD and the story in the south have never really been connected, and that's a fault of the narrative. Hopefully Benioff and Weiss have a few tricks up their sleeve to reinvigorate the last 3 episodes, but I've found they are very literal writers in the sense of what you see is what you get, but we'll see and I hope the last three episodes are good and actually explain a few things!

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Old May 1st 19, 19:23   #136
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Re: Game of Thrones, HBO series

Just have a minute,

They showed when The Night King attacked The Cave of The Three-Eyed Raven that he could manipulate fire. I knew the dragon fire would have little to no effect.
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Old May 3rd 19, 03:46   #137
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Re: Game of Thrones, HBO series

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I was really disappointed by it. It wasn't too dark on my TV, so I don't know if it was just a problem with people's settings on their TV - I thought the episode's cinematography was wonderful. Just a shame about the script.
A friend of mine claims that HBO released a message that said people needed to turn up the brightness on their TVs. I think that is probably internet BS, but everyone I know is complaining about not being able to see a lot of it.


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Where did Melisandre come from?
I think the point is that she knew where her fate lay and that is why she showed up when she did.

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How did anyone on the front lines survive more than five minutes?
I have no clue. It was very strange how they showed people like Brienne being constantly overwhelmed and brought down by The Dead, but continually getting back up.
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Why did the Dothraki just charge like that?
Because that is what The Dothraki do. The charge in and overwhelm. The Unsullied use military strategy. So everyone was playing to their strengths.

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Where did Ghost go?
That is one of those questions they want to leave open for us so Ghost can show up down the road, or not. LOL

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where did Rheagal go?
Again, see Ghost answer - however my screen was dark and I kind of think that was Rhaegal at the end. I feel like Rhaegal and Viserion have sort of longer thinner horns on their heads than Drogon and that dragon at the end had more of a Rhaegal look to me, but again my ability to see detail was limited.

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Why was there no real battle strategy?
I don't think there really could be. That is why they just played to each groups strength. With strategy you assess your opponents strengths and weaknesses. And you know that your opponents more than likely are using strategy to keep themselves ALIVE. The Army of the Dead had no fear and would not stop coming forward or retreat or make strategic moves.

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Why can the Night King do magical things like control the weather and survive dragon fire?
Like I said before they established The Night King had some control over fire. I believe they also had times when The Army of the Dead had storms come in around them that could suggest The Night King had control over that ability.

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After the emphasis on Valyrian steel, why not have some White Walker fights?
That was disappointing. I felt the use of Dragon Glass was also greatly under played.
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Why completely ignore all the build up of Jon's arc just to sideline him at the crucial moment?
Shock value.
I feel like they knew all of the fans expected it so they wanted to do something unexpected. I loved it in the moment, but I have since soured on it because it seems it could be a precursor to twists I'm really not going to enjoy.
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Why didn't Theon just stay beside Bran, he'd be alive now if he had!
He couldn't know that. Plus this was all part of path to redemption in his eyes. Once Yara was free his next step was exactly what happened, though I'm sure he did not want actual death to enter the picture.
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And how on Earth did Arya (who is way too overpowered, by the way) get past the White Walkers without them noticing (made even more ridiculous by the fact that the Night King did notice her even though she was behind him)?
I think the point here was that her speed and stealth were what was needed. By that point in the episode it had been well established Jon had zero chance.
Even if he had made it past Viserion there was no way he could have gotten past The Dead and The White Walkers to get to The Night King. I think there was a point made that they felt perfectly secure in that moment.
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And why should I care about Cersei and Euron being the endgame when they haven't been all that interesting for a while now?
I agree. I feel like they put the cart before the horse here and Cersei should have been dealt with first.

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Sorry, I had to get that rant off my chest, but I love Game of Thrones and episode 3 was like a punch in the gut. I've never had a problem with the writing of the series until now, it just felt like they threw out any kind of narrative sense just to have a twist that the writers admit they only thought of a couple of seasons back.
Okay so I was talking with friends about it and I agree that it did seem like a "gut punch" in a few ways, but it got me thinking. We hear all of the time that George R R Martin isn't that involved with the series since it departed from the books. Well it is now my guess that part of this agreed departure came with some criteria. Maybe those criteria involved things like Jon Snow can not kill The Night King in the TV series, and so on.

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And despite my complaints there were lots of things to love about episode 3. The first 60 minutes were breathtaking. It was totally apocalyptic, nightmare fuel I was actually scared for the characters as I was watching it. As nonsensical as it was, the Dothraki charge and then their fire-lit Arakhs being snuffed out was bone-chilling. The Unsullied defending the retreat outside Winterfell's walls was incredibly brave. The dragon fight was excellent, and to be fair their plan worked to an extent they managed to dismount the Night King and get their shot at him with the dragonfire, wasn't their fault he's magically immune! The bit where the Night King raised the dead as Jon chased him was brilliant. But yeah, there were flaws that really soured it, and I really hope on second and third watch I can get over this problems I had with it.
Yes there was so much good and so much to scratch one's head at.

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In many ways it reminded me of the Shadow War ending early, and then everyone asked, what then? And what we got then was really excellent, but B5 had skilfully connected the Shadow War and the Earth civil war via the Shadows having their hands in Clark's rise, so it didn't feel like a separate story. Here the AOTD and the story in the south have never really been connected, and that's a fault of the narrative. Hopefully Benioff and Weiss have a few tricks up their sleeve to reinvigorate the last 3 episodes, but I've found they are very literal writers in the sense of what you see is what you get, but we'll see and I hope the last three episodes are good and actually explain a few things!
Yes I am NOW very concerned that many of their explanations and steps moving forward are going to annoy me. Like I said above, I LOVED the Arya moment in the moment, but thinking on it I just don't want to wrap my head around it. There are directions the show shouldn't go and now I feel they will. BUT definitely correct about it feeling like B5 only there is no AOTD connection to Cersei... or is there. lol

So one prediction is after not having too many shocking deaths last week we might get one or two this week. We don't know whom may die from wounds they received, Sam I am looking at you. But what I really think will happen is either Bronn or some other assassin will take out one or two major characters. I feel like after last week it makes the most logical sense that when the sunrises Cersei's mercenary army attacks the remnants of Winterfell and the heroes will fall. If that doesn't happen then I definitely think Bronn might kill someone or some other unknown entity might kill someone major. I don't want to think Bronn would kill Jaime or Tyrion, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't kill another major player like Daenerys or Jon or Sansa or Bran or Arya or Brienne as she jumps in front of the bolt to save someone. And that isn't to say someone with him wouldn't kill a major player. Any way you look at it I feel this week will have a surprise death or deaths.
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Old May 3rd 19, 08:12   #138
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Re: Game of Thrones, HBO series

I do think I'm cooling on my dislike of the episode. I've not had chance to watch it again yet, but I think I'm beginning to accept it for what it is. It's nice to be able to talk about the show, anyway

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A friend of mine claims that HBO released a message that said people needed to turn up the brightness on their TVs. I think that is probably internet BS, but everyone I know is complaining about not being able to see a lot of it.
I didn't adjust my set or anything - I'm a bit clueless when it comes to all that! I think I was just lucky that my TV was set to a brightness and contrast where I could see everything that was happening (albeit some bits, like differentiating the dragons, was tricky, but I'm a bit colour blind as well so I can't see their different colours all that well). But I agree, they should have realised that everyone's TV sets are set up differently, and accounted for that just a little bit.

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Like I said before they established The Night King had some control over fire. I believe they also had times when The Army of the Dead had storms come in around them that could suggest The Night King had control over that ability.
Also in Hardhome the walker put out the fire around him. I guess my question is, why do they have this and other abilities? A shard of dragon glass to the heart of the Night King gives him all these magical powers, but why? It all seems wishy-washy.

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He couldn't know that. Plus this was all part of path to redemption in his eyes. Once Yara was free his next step was exactly what happened, though I'm sure he did not want actual death to enter the picture.
I think there is a question of whether Bran knew what would happen. After all, he gave Arya the dagger in the first place. On one hand the dialogue over the episodes implies he doesn't know what will happen, but on the other hand his actions suggest he does know. If he knew and still let Theon die, that's pretty cold!

Quote:
I think the point here was that her speed and stealth were what was needed. By that point in the episode it had been well established Jon had zero chance.
Even if he had made it past Viserion there was no way he could have gotten past The Dead and The White Walkers to get to The Night King. I think there was a point made that they felt perfectly secure in that moment.
I actually never thought Jon would kill the Night King (or if he did he'd die in the process) as much as I would have liked him to, simply for those same reasons, it would be a bit predictable. But I still think after all the build up and staring each other down over three or four seasons, there should have been a fight between them, maybe Jon is on the verge of defeat before someone unexpected comes and stabs there Night King in the back. And to be fair, if Jon does end up winning the throne, it might be a bit much for him to do that and kill the Night King a well. It's an ensemble series after all, so they need to spread the moments around the characters. So I think Jon's chances of winning have just gone up :-)

Actually, I was thinking about the end of episode 3, I wonder if it might have felt more true to Game of Thrones had Arya leapt in, but been killed by the Night King (I thought this had actually happened when he caught her), but as his back is turned to Bran, Bran pulls out a shard of dragon glass and stabs the Night King in the back, just like he saw Howland Reed do to Ser Arthur Dayne at the Tower of Joy. Game over, but still shocking and in keeping with the series.

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I agree. I feel like they put the cart before the horse here and Cersei should have been dealt with first.
Definitely, play the game of thrones first, then all come together and show they are worthy and have settled their differences by fighting the Army of the Dead.

Quote:
Okay so I was talking with friends about it and I agree that it did seem like a "gut punch" in a few ways, but it got me thinking. We hear all of the time that George R R Martin isn't that involved with the series since it departed from the books. Well it is now my guess that part of this agreed departure came with some criteria. Maybe those criteria involved things like Jon Snow can not kill The Night King in the TV series, and so on.
There is no Night King in the books, but I do remember an interview with GRRM when he said that early on in the writing of the first book, he envisioned it as a trilogy with the conclusion being a big battle at Winterfell against the Others. Maybe the show writers have used that alternative ending?

Quote:
So one prediction is after not having too many shocking deaths last week we might get one or two this week. We don't know whom may die from wounds they received, Sam I am looking at you. But what I really think will happen is either Bronn or some other assassin will take out one or two major characters. I feel like after last week it makes the most logical sense that when the sunrises Cersei's mercenary army attacks the remnants of Winterfell and the heroes will fall. If that doesn't happen then I definitely think Bronn might kill someone or some other unknown entity might kill someone major. I don't want to think Bronn would kill Jaime or Tyrion, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't kill another major player like Daenerys or Jon or Sansa or Bran or Arya or Brienne as she jumps in front of the bolt to save someone. And that isn't to say someone with him wouldn't kill a major player. Any way you look at it I feel this week will have a surprise death or deaths.
The short trailer for the next episode gives a little bit away about who survived. But yeah, I only know one spoiler for the rest of the series, which is episode 5, other than that I have no clue what is going to happen. Which is actually quite good, as it will be a surprise. Hopefully a nice surprise!
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Old May 3rd 19, 14:23   #139
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Re: Game of Thrones, HBO series

I never watch the preview for the next episode. Sorry, it was just a quick note before work. I will try to get back later.
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Old May 5th 19, 21:14   #140
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Okay, Okay, Okay first of all I was just talking with someone who blew my mind and deeply troubled me because I did not notice this in the last episode. The implications are so great and I didn't even SEE it!!!!!

Where were Lord Royce and The Knights of The Vale?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

The Heroes of The Battle of The Bastards were at Winterfell right before the battle with The Army of The Dead, but clearly the Dothraki were the only cavalry. There were no other people on horseback other than White Walkers. I AM SO MAD AT MYSELF THAT I DID NOT NOTICE THIS!!!!!!

So the person who told me says the speculation is that Sansa is playing Little Finger and she told Lord Royce to hold them back. Now that a victory has been won at the cost of all armies they will come in and Sansa will offer them to Daenerys in exchange for Northern Independence. I can't say I disagree, but this is another baffling development.

Okay so back to the discussion. I have to say I am the opposite of Springer. The more time I've had to ponder the more I've soured on the episode. I just don't understand what Jon Snow's whole purpose has been now. It seemed so clear cut and they just blew that out of the water (and honestly the fact that there was no fight between them is REALLY annoying. You know The Night King could have killed or mortally wounded Jon Snow and then Arya jumped in or something.) I just can't fathom that everything he has gone through means he should be on the Iron Throne. Yes he understands what is important, but nothing they've shown up to this point says this is a guy who should sit on a throne and make decisions. Decisions in battle maybe, but taxation and food distribution I don't know.

So to some specific points, I think the "shard of dragon glass" gave him his weakness. I think it was just a part of the transformation not the catalyst.

I don't think Bran knew exactly what would happen, but if he did it doesn't serve a TV show for him to share it. LOL

Definitely more GOT to have Arya have been killed. As I said, it was a REALLY cool moment and I can logic it out that Arya's speed and stealth meant she was the most likely candidate, but I agree that Springer's way is definitely more what we should have expected when we saw The Night King catch her.

Okay I am totally shocked that there is no Night King in the books.

And I think I am right that there will be some shocking deaths this week. It is a matter of letting your guard down for a moment then BAM!
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