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New crusade viewers ?
- Thread starter Shaal Mayan
- Start date
hypatia
Regular
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlackStar:
They should have showed it first anyway. I mean, how much of an audience could they really attract to start watching Crusade at 6 AM besides me
?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ahem, Ahem! If I can get up at 5am to get ready for classes, I can certainly get up at 7am to watch Crusade on a day I have off! What was tricky for me was the length of it. I missed some bits due to running out of tape when I was out of the house!
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"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo
They should have showed it first anyway. I mean, how much of an audience could they really attract to start watching Crusade at 6 AM besides me
Ahem, Ahem! If I can get up at 5am to get ready for classes, I can certainly get up at 7am to watch Crusade on a day I have off! What was tricky for me was the length of it. I missed some bits due to running out of tape when I was out of the house!
------------------
"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo
KoshN
Super Moderator
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hypatia:
Sorry, but what does IIRC mean?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If I Recall Correctly
------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire
"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
Sorry, but what does IIRC mean?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If I Recall Correctly
------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire
"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
Crusade really would have been great to have for 5 years, I rather enjoyed the looser command structure, and the rougish air of Gideon. It definetely gave the impression of a ship on it's own, versus the closed enviornment of the non-moving more solidly grounded command enviornment of B5. Given more time it would have been some of the best stuff out of the B5 universe, but what can I say except TNT suxors! ;p
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"Good judgment comes from experience, unfortunately most experience comes from bad judgment!"
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"Good judgment comes from experience, unfortunately most experience comes from bad judgment!"
KoshN
Super Moderator
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Demon:
This is the order they gave in the B5 magazine, which actually makes some sense of the continuity. I've put a brief summary of the events in each episode as a reminder:
Date Episode Summary
<snip>
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
"A Call to Arms"
1. "War Zone" (Black Uniforms), Early January 2267. How they got Eilerson. Chambers and Eilerson fairly friendly.
2. "The Long Road" (Black Uniforms). Early March 2267 (based upon what the Earthforce Captain says of how long they've been there).
3. "The Well of Forever" (Black Uniforms). Should come before "The Path of Sorrows" (which follows up on the Galen/Isabelle thread). Galen apologized to Gideon in "The Well of Forever" so this is another reason this should come before "The Path of Sorrows".
4. "The Path of Sorrows" (Black Uniforms). Must come before "To The Ends of the Earth" (an unfilmed script that was up on Bookface.com).
5. "Ruling from the Tomb" (Black Uniforms), Gideon & Lochley's FIRST Meeting. Comes before "Each Night I Dream of Home" and before "The Rules of the Game". Date shown is 6/15/2267, so it should really come between "Visitors from Down the Street" and "Each Night I Dream of Home" but that would mess up the "Uniform" continuity.
6. "Appearances and Other Deceits" (The transition from Black Uniforms to Grey Uniforms). Feels like it should come after "Racing the Night" due to the Chambers/Eilerson relationship (more friendly here), but it can't since that would screw up "Uniform" continuity.
7. "Racing the Night" (Grey Uniforms). How they got Eilerson (as it was meant to be). There's friction between Chambers and Eilerson. Feels out of character due to "War Zone" (which never should have existed).
8. "The Needs of Earth" (Grey Uniforms). Should come after "The Well of Forever". This shouldn't come too early in the series because it'd be too soon for their hope to be waning/need bolstering.
9. "The Memory of War" (Grey Uniforms). Early April 2267. Must come before "Patterns of the Soul" so they discover the virus screen before they use it.
10. "Visitors from Down the Street" (Grey Uniforms). This is the main glitch with this order because of the 5/13/2267 2:37PM EST date/time shown (so it should come before "Ruling from the Tomb"), but it can't because that would screw up "Uniform" continuity.
11. "Each Night I Dream of Home" (Grey Uniforms). After "Ruling from the Tomb". After "The Memory of War". Before "Patterns of the Soul". The continuing Gideon/Lochley warm-up. Takes place "a few months" after "The Memory of War" so it's early to mid-July 2267.
12. "To the Ends of the Earth" (Unfilmed, transition from Grey to Black Uniforms - The Laundry Accident Episode) (an unfilmed script that was up on Bookface.com).
13. "Patterns of the Soul" (Black Uniforms). MUST come after The Memory of War", so it must come in the second black uniform group, and therefore must come after "To the Ends of the Earth".
14. "The Rules of the Game" (Black Uniforms). Must come after "Each Night I Dream of Home". This is the apex of the Gideon/Lochley warm-up. Fall 2267?
22. "End of the Line" (Unfilmed, Black Uniforms) (an unfilmed script that was up on Bookface.com). Has to be the Season 1 finale.
??. "Value Judgements" (Unfilmed, Black Uniforms). Could go either in the first or second black uniform group.
??. "Tried & True" (Unfilmed, Black Uniforms). Could go either in the first or second black uniform group.
------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire
"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited October 12, 2001).]
This is the order they gave in the B5 magazine, which actually makes some sense of the continuity. I've put a brief summary of the events in each episode as a reminder:
Date Episode Summary
<snip>
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
"A Call to Arms"
1. "War Zone" (Black Uniforms), Early January 2267. How they got Eilerson. Chambers and Eilerson fairly friendly.
2. "The Long Road" (Black Uniforms). Early March 2267 (based upon what the Earthforce Captain says of how long they've been there).
3. "The Well of Forever" (Black Uniforms). Should come before "The Path of Sorrows" (which follows up on the Galen/Isabelle thread). Galen apologized to Gideon in "The Well of Forever" so this is another reason this should come before "The Path of Sorrows".
4. "The Path of Sorrows" (Black Uniforms). Must come before "To The Ends of the Earth" (an unfilmed script that was up on Bookface.com).
5. "Ruling from the Tomb" (Black Uniforms), Gideon & Lochley's FIRST Meeting. Comes before "Each Night I Dream of Home" and before "The Rules of the Game". Date shown is 6/15/2267, so it should really come between "Visitors from Down the Street" and "Each Night I Dream of Home" but that would mess up the "Uniform" continuity.
6. "Appearances and Other Deceits" (The transition from Black Uniforms to Grey Uniforms). Feels like it should come after "Racing the Night" due to the Chambers/Eilerson relationship (more friendly here), but it can't since that would screw up "Uniform" continuity.
7. "Racing the Night" (Grey Uniforms). How they got Eilerson (as it was meant to be). There's friction between Chambers and Eilerson. Feels out of character due to "War Zone" (which never should have existed).
8. "The Needs of Earth" (Grey Uniforms). Should come after "The Well of Forever". This shouldn't come too early in the series because it'd be too soon for their hope to be waning/need bolstering.
9. "The Memory of War" (Grey Uniforms). Early April 2267. Must come before "Patterns of the Soul" so they discover the virus screen before they use it.
10. "Visitors from Down the Street" (Grey Uniforms). This is the main glitch with this order because of the 5/13/2267 2:37PM EST date/time shown (so it should come before "Ruling from the Tomb"), but it can't because that would screw up "Uniform" continuity.
11. "Each Night I Dream of Home" (Grey Uniforms). After "Ruling from the Tomb". After "The Memory of War". Before "Patterns of the Soul". The continuing Gideon/Lochley warm-up. Takes place "a few months" after "The Memory of War" so it's early to mid-July 2267.
12. "To the Ends of the Earth" (Unfilmed, transition from Grey to Black Uniforms - The Laundry Accident Episode) (an unfilmed script that was up on Bookface.com).
13. "Patterns of the Soul" (Black Uniforms). MUST come after The Memory of War", so it must come in the second black uniform group, and therefore must come after "To the Ends of the Earth".
14. "The Rules of the Game" (Black Uniforms). Must come after "Each Night I Dream of Home". This is the apex of the Gideon/Lochley warm-up. Fall 2267?
22. "End of the Line" (Unfilmed, Black Uniforms) (an unfilmed script that was up on Bookface.com). Has to be the Season 1 finale.
??. "Value Judgements" (Unfilmed, Black Uniforms). Could go either in the first or second black uniform group.
??. "Tried & True" (Unfilmed, Black Uniforms). Could go either in the first or second black uniform group.
------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire
"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited October 12, 2001).]
The order JMS picked was for the first time Scifi showed Crusade when you only saw one ep per night not in a marathon. While hiding Warzone in early morning might have made sense for the chain reaction but not for showing it at night. When Crusade was showing one ep per night the first ep a new fan might see, the first, was a much more important spot to have a quality episode.
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"Yeah, we could start our own game where people throw ducks at balloons and nothing's the way it seems."-Homer
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"Yeah, we could start our own game where people throw ducks at balloons and nothing's the way it seems."-Homer
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>However, what you said brings up another interesting concept ... is there a better order than the one JMS and SciFi came up with? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is the order they gave in the B5 magazine, which actually makes some sense of the continuity. I've put a brief summary of the events in each episode as a reminder:
Date Episode Summary
January 2267 War Zone Gideon is given command of the Excalibur and gathers his crew.
February 2267 The Long Road Gideon and Galen meet up with Alwyn, another Technomage, on Regula IV.
March 2267 Appearances and Other Deceits The Excalibur is invaded by an alien life form and Gideon has to accept a change of uniform.
March/April 2267 The Memory of War Galen tries to stop the crew going down to the planet where they find the Technomage virus. Chambers and Galen develop the temporary virus screen.
April 2267 The Needs of Earth Gideon and Dureena free a prisoner and obtain something they hadn’t expected – hope.
May 2267 Racing the Night Galen helps the Excalibur crew escape the trap set by a race infected by the Drakh plague.
13/14 May 2267 Visitors From Down the Street Some unexpected visitors speak perfect English, and Gideon doesn’t like being lied about.
May 2267 Each Night I Dream of Home Chambers finds out more about the Drakh plague and the Excalibur has some familiar visitors. One of them seems to give Gideon gas.
An ‘accident’ in the laundry destroys the bellhop uniforms and the crew go back to basic black.
June 2267 The Path of Sorrows Gideon won’t leave an alien behind, but it arouses uncomfortable memories for him, Matheson and Galen
June 2267 Patterns of the Soul Robert Black and his team have been deliberately infected by the Drakh plague and pass it on to the sole survivors of Dureena’s people. The temporary virus screen is used.
June 2267 Ruling From the Tomb Doomsday cultists plan to blow up a Medical Conference on Mars. The crew of the Excalibur and Lochley stop them just in time. Max teaches Dureena to dance.
July 2267 The Rules of the Game Gideon tries to negotiate with the perfect idiot and nearly gets himself and Lochley killed. Max saves his ex-wife and Mr. Kitty.
July 2267 The Well of Forever Galen finds the secret of the Well and hi-jacks the Excalibur to get himself there. They take Mr. Jones along for the ride and Gideon blackmails him into leaving Matheson alone.
------------------
Demon
This is the order they gave in the B5 magazine, which actually makes some sense of the continuity. I've put a brief summary of the events in each episode as a reminder:
Date Episode Summary
January 2267 War Zone Gideon is given command of the Excalibur and gathers his crew.
February 2267 The Long Road Gideon and Galen meet up with Alwyn, another Technomage, on Regula IV.
March 2267 Appearances and Other Deceits The Excalibur is invaded by an alien life form and Gideon has to accept a change of uniform.
March/April 2267 The Memory of War Galen tries to stop the crew going down to the planet where they find the Technomage virus. Chambers and Galen develop the temporary virus screen.
April 2267 The Needs of Earth Gideon and Dureena free a prisoner and obtain something they hadn’t expected – hope.
May 2267 Racing the Night Galen helps the Excalibur crew escape the trap set by a race infected by the Drakh plague.
13/14 May 2267 Visitors From Down the Street Some unexpected visitors speak perfect English, and Gideon doesn’t like being lied about.
May 2267 Each Night I Dream of Home Chambers finds out more about the Drakh plague and the Excalibur has some familiar visitors. One of them seems to give Gideon gas.
An ‘accident’ in the laundry destroys the bellhop uniforms and the crew go back to basic black.
June 2267 The Path of Sorrows Gideon won’t leave an alien behind, but it arouses uncomfortable memories for him, Matheson and Galen
June 2267 Patterns of the Soul Robert Black and his team have been deliberately infected by the Drakh plague and pass it on to the sole survivors of Dureena’s people. The temporary virus screen is used.
June 2267 Ruling From the Tomb Doomsday cultists plan to blow up a Medical Conference on Mars. The crew of the Excalibur and Lochley stop them just in time. Max teaches Dureena to dance.
July 2267 The Rules of the Game Gideon tries to negotiate with the perfect idiot and nearly gets himself and Lochley killed. Max saves his ex-wife and Mr. Kitty.
July 2267 The Well of Forever Galen finds the secret of the Well and hi-jacks the Excalibur to get himself there. They take Mr. Jones along for the ride and Gideon blackmails him into leaving Matheson alone.
------------------
Demon
Lyta
Moderator
KoshN - Interesting to see that your order is very similar to what I call the "UK order" ... it is based on the order they released the episodes to VHS. Also, I never thought of including the unfilmed episodes either (mostly because I have never read them).
I have always wondered why there were so many different ways of showing this series ... is it because there are so many inconsistancies that it makes it easy to debate what order makes the most sense?
I have not picked apart this series yet as I have only seen it twice all the way through (one TNT order and one SciFi/JMS order). One of these days I am going to sit down and watch each of the different orders and see which one I like ... too bad it takes so much time!
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Monica Hübinette | http://monica.hubbe.net/ | http://abyss.hubbe.net/b5/
Our thoughts form the universe. They always matter. --G'Kar of Babylon 5
I have always wondered why there were so many different ways of showing this series ... is it because there are so many inconsistancies that it makes it easy to debate what order makes the most sense?
I have not picked apart this series yet as I have only seen it twice all the way through (one TNT order and one SciFi/JMS order). One of these days I am going to sit down and watch each of the different orders and see which one I like ... too bad it takes so much time!
------------------
Monica Hübinette | http://monica.hubbe.net/ | http://abyss.hubbe.net/b5/
Our thoughts form the universe. They always matter. --G'Kar of Babylon 5
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>5. "Ruling from the Tomb" (Black Uniforms), Gideon & Lochley's FIRST Meeting. Comes before "Each Night I Dream of Home" and before "The Rules of the Game". Date shown is 6/15/2267, so it should really come between "Visitors from Down the Street" and "Each Night I Dream of Home" but that would mess up the "Uniform" continuity.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
One more reason for ignoring the uniform continuity, given the episodes as they exist. "Racing the Night" was, of course, intended to be the first meeting between Gideon and Lochley, but TNT's irrational insistance on using the black uniforms in all the episodes filmed after the first five, including those that come before them in the chronology, made this impossible. Since TNT planned to air "Ruling from the Tomb" before "Each Night I Dream of Home" it was written as their first meeting - even though it was planned as their second, and a continuation of the attraction that we just barely see starting to develop in "Each Night". (Which makes a lot more sense in terms of the emotional attachment than what we end up with.)
Gary Cole looped the line "Nice to see you again, Captain" for his entrance to Lochley's hospital room during post-production on "Each Night". This just barely makes it "work" in relation to the TNT order. Of course, by the time of the second production shut-down, TNT had decided not to air any of the grey uniform episodes, and tried to withhold the money needed to complete the FX and other post-production work on them. They finally relented under threat of legal action from Warner Bros. (Although they did weasel out of paying for the remaining nine episodes of S1, which they were contractually required to do. Time Warner put a stop to any legal action on that point, deciding it didn't really feel like paying for the lawyers on both sides of the same suit.
)
"War Zone" simply does not exist in my universe. As far as I'm concerned it should never be included in any episode order, especially a hypothetical "fan approved" one. I don't know many fans who really approve of "War Zone."
Regards,
Joe
------------------
Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net
One more reason for ignoring the uniform continuity, given the episodes as they exist. "Racing the Night" was, of course, intended to be the first meeting between Gideon and Lochley, but TNT's irrational insistance on using the black uniforms in all the episodes filmed after the first five, including those that come before them in the chronology, made this impossible. Since TNT planned to air "Ruling from the Tomb" before "Each Night I Dream of Home" it was written as their first meeting - even though it was planned as their second, and a continuation of the attraction that we just barely see starting to develop in "Each Night". (Which makes a lot more sense in terms of the emotional attachment than what we end up with.)
Gary Cole looped the line "Nice to see you again, Captain" for his entrance to Lochley's hospital room during post-production on "Each Night". This just barely makes it "work" in relation to the TNT order. Of course, by the time of the second production shut-down, TNT had decided not to air any of the grey uniform episodes, and tried to withhold the money needed to complete the FX and other post-production work on them. They finally relented under threat of legal action from Warner Bros. (Although they did weasel out of paying for the remaining nine episodes of S1, which they were contractually required to do. Time Warner put a stop to any legal action on that point, deciding it didn't really feel like paying for the lawyers on both sides of the same suit.
"War Zone" simply does not exist in my universe. As far as I'm concerned it should never be included in any episode order, especially a hypothetical "fan approved" one. I don't know many fans who really approve of "War Zone."
Regards,
Joe
------------------
Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lyta:
I have always wondered why there were so many different ways of showing this series ... is it because there are so many inconsistancies that it makes it easy to debate what order makes the most sense?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Untill TNT became involved, the series was probably being inteded to air something like this:
1. Racing the Night
2. The Memory of War
3. The Needs of Earth
4. Visitors from Down the Street
5. Each Night I Dream of Home
6. The Long Road
7. The Path of Sorrows
8. The Well of Forever
(While the three last were not produced before the production stop, they are always a few scripts ahead.)
Then TNT came in and the airing order had to change due to the new uniforms, the shorning in of "War Zone", and the fact that TNT wanted the grey uniform eps to air as far back as possible. This "TNT" order, while being fairly OK from a continuite perspecitive, messed up a lot of the character developent and forshadowing seeded out in the first few episodes by airing them after the payoffs, and reduced the impact of episodes meant to build upon them, which ended up first.
It also messed up the "jms" order, since all episodes after the TNT shutown were written to fit in the TNT order.
So basically, you can have continuity, or character development / foreshadowing. I'll take the latter every time.
------------------
You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.
-- Harlan Ellison qouting Gustave Flaubert
I have always wondered why there were so many different ways of showing this series ... is it because there are so many inconsistancies that it makes it easy to debate what order makes the most sense?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Untill TNT became involved, the series was probably being inteded to air something like this:
1. Racing the Night
2. The Memory of War
3. The Needs of Earth
4. Visitors from Down the Street
5. Each Night I Dream of Home
6. The Long Road
7. The Path of Sorrows
8. The Well of Forever
(While the three last were not produced before the production stop, they are always a few scripts ahead.)
Then TNT came in and the airing order had to change due to the new uniforms, the shorning in of "War Zone", and the fact that TNT wanted the grey uniform eps to air as far back as possible. This "TNT" order, while being fairly OK from a continuite perspecitive, messed up a lot of the character developent and forshadowing seeded out in the first few episodes by airing them after the payoffs, and reduced the impact of episodes meant to build upon them, which ended up first.
It also messed up the "jms" order, since all episodes after the TNT shutown were written to fit in the TNT order.
So basically, you can have continuity, or character development / foreshadowing. I'll take the latter every time.
------------------
You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.
-- Harlan Ellison qouting Gustave Flaubert
KoshN
Super Moderator
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:
"Racing the Night" was, of course, intended to be the first meeting between Gideon and Lochley,
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
"Racing the Night" WHAT?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
Gary Cole looped the line "Nice to see you again, Captain" for his entrance to Lochley's hospital room during post-production on "Each Night".
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, I know.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
(Although they did weasel out of paying for the remaining nine episodes of S1, which they were contractually required to do. Time Warner put a stop to any legal action on that point, deciding it didn't really feel like paying for the lawyers on both sides of the same suit.
)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm now envisioning TNT as a bunch of weasels in suits.
Anybody got a shot (digipic) of TNT headquarters in Atlanta? I want to use it in a Lightwave animation. I'm planning on having a multi-pronged attack by a certain Vorlon Transport (KoshN green, of course), a Shadow Battlecrab, the Excalibur, and JMS's asteroid.
I prefer a high res. TIFF, but a high quality JPG or even a screen capture might do. I'll make a model of the bldg. in Modeler, to use in the animation.
BTW, I'm also going to send my Vorlon Transport and a few Vorlon friends after Osama bin Laden in an animation as well.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
"War Zone" simply does not exist in my universe. As far as I'm concerned it should never be included in any episode order, especially a hypothetical "fan approved" one. I don't know many fans who really approve of "War Zone."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I LIKE Max's lines in War Zone.
------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire
"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
"Racing the Night" was, of course, intended to be the first meeting between Gideon and Lochley,
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
"Racing the Night" WHAT?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
Gary Cole looped the line "Nice to see you again, Captain" for his entrance to Lochley's hospital room during post-production on "Each Night".
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, I know.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
(Although they did weasel out of paying for the remaining nine episodes of S1, which they were contractually required to do. Time Warner put a stop to any legal action on that point, deciding it didn't really feel like paying for the lawyers on both sides of the same suit.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm now envisioning TNT as a bunch of weasels in suits.
Anybody got a shot (digipic) of TNT headquarters in Atlanta? I want to use it in a Lightwave animation. I'm planning on having a multi-pronged attack by a certain Vorlon Transport (KoshN green, of course), a Shadow Battlecrab, the Excalibur, and JMS's asteroid.
I prefer a high res. TIFF, but a high quality JPG or even a screen capture might do. I'll make a model of the bldg. in Modeler, to use in the animation.
BTW, I'm also going to send my Vorlon Transport and a few Vorlon friends after Osama bin Laden in an animation as well.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
"War Zone" simply does not exist in my universe. As far as I'm concerned it should never be included in any episode order, especially a hypothetical "fan approved" one. I don't know many fans who really approve of "War Zone."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I LIKE Max's lines in War Zone.
------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire
"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
KoshN
Super Moderator
Maybe in the Lightwave animation I could have the Vorlon Transport chase the TNT Suited Weasels that escaped, firing right behind them (make 'em dance). The suits could then do the Three Stooges Curly "Woo-Woo-Woo" as they ran.
This could be fun.
------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire
"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
This could be fun.
------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire
"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
KoshN
Super Moderator
Ahhhh, maybe I'll just use any ol' skyscraper and stick a TNT sign on top.
------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire
"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire
"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
KoshN
Super Moderator
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lyta:
KoshN - Interesting to see that your order is very similar to what I call the "UK order" ... it is based on the order they released the episodes to VHS. Also, I never thought of including the unfilmed episodes either (mostly because I have never read them).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's just the order I came up with, based upon what was said and done in the actual episodes, what JMS has said, and the unfilmed scripts I've read.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
I have always wondered why there were so many different ways of showing this series ... is it because there are so many inconsistancies that it makes it easy to debate what order makes the most sense?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's because there is NO possible correct order to air the existing 13 episodes, because of how badly TNT screwed with the whole project. JMS snuck his revenge into the episodes:
The pesky aliens screwing with the Excalibur in The Well of Forever.
The "bad smell" in Visitors from Down the Street.
"The TRUTH is never in anyone's best interests." in Visitors from Down the Street.
"The TRUTH is out of fashion." Visitors from Down the Street.
Gideon's log entry in Appearances and Other Deceits: http://b5.sdvc.uwyo.edu/crusade/snds/imykiltm.zip
Gideon, "Personal journal, Captain Matthew Gideon, continue. It's now days, since our visitors arrived on behalf of political affairs office. There is apparently some concern with how our work here is being perceived back home. They've been assigned to help us. Before their tour is finished, I may have to kill them. Assuming, Lt. Matheson doesn't beat me to it."
There are probably more.
Unless new episodes are filmed, and some changes to the existing 13 are made, there never will be a "correct" order. This is the TNT legacy.
------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire
"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
KoshN - Interesting to see that your order is very similar to what I call the "UK order" ... it is based on the order they released the episodes to VHS. Also, I never thought of including the unfilmed episodes either (mostly because I have never read them).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's just the order I came up with, based upon what was said and done in the actual episodes, what JMS has said, and the unfilmed scripts I've read.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
I have always wondered why there were so many different ways of showing this series ... is it because there are so many inconsistancies that it makes it easy to debate what order makes the most sense?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's because there is NO possible correct order to air the existing 13 episodes, because of how badly TNT screwed with the whole project. JMS snuck his revenge into the episodes:
The pesky aliens screwing with the Excalibur in The Well of Forever.
The "bad smell" in Visitors from Down the Street.
"The TRUTH is never in anyone's best interests." in Visitors from Down the Street.
"The TRUTH is out of fashion." Visitors from Down the Street.
Gideon's log entry in Appearances and Other Deceits: http://b5.sdvc.uwyo.edu/crusade/snds/imykiltm.zip
Gideon, "Personal journal, Captain Matthew Gideon, continue. It's now days, since our visitors arrived on behalf of political affairs office. There is apparently some concern with how our work here is being perceived back home. They've been assigned to help us. Before their tour is finished, I may have to kill them. Assuming, Lt. Matheson doesn't beat me to it."
There are probably more.
Unless new episodes are filmed, and some changes to the existing 13 are made, there never will be a "correct" order. This is the TNT legacy.
------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire
"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>"Racing the Night" WHAT?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Brain spasm. I meant "Each Night I Dream of Home" typed "Racing the Night". (Hey, both titles have the word "Night" in them, so I was close.
)
As for Max in "War Zone" - yeah, he was OK. Max usually is. But that doesn't make up for the mutiny, the fist fight, the lack of references to B5 and Sheridan, the endless fraggin' exposition or the cheesy stock-footage-in-the-monitor gag. What "War Zone" mostly is, is unnecessary. There isn't anything in the episode in terms of the mission or the characters that isn't covered better, with more action and more economy in "Racing the Night".
We "get" Gideon, the ship and the mission in the teaser. We "get" Chambers, and Max before we're out of the first scene. We get an intriguing look at Dureena, and learn about Galen and his odd relation to both the crew and the Gideon before the end of act one, even though we never see him, only hear his voice. "Racing the Night" is put togther like a Swiss watch, and it should be studied by anyone who wants to learn how to write a first episode for a TV series.
By the end of the episode we've got a bead on almost every character except Matheson, and their relationships, and as a bonus we get the mystery of the Apocalypse Box in the tag. When "Racing the Night" finally rolled around in the TNT order I suddenly saw the show that JMS had been talking about as S5 rolled around. Although I came to like some of the "black uniform" shows better the second time around (in large part because the Sci-Fi order works in terms of episode pacing as well as story) it was during the last five weeks of the TNT run that I really became a fan of the show-that-could-have-been.
Regards,
Joe
------------------
Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net
Brain spasm. I meant "Each Night I Dream of Home" typed "Racing the Night". (Hey, both titles have the word "Night" in them, so I was close.
As for Max in "War Zone" - yeah, he was OK. Max usually is. But that doesn't make up for the mutiny, the fist fight, the lack of references to B5 and Sheridan, the endless fraggin' exposition or the cheesy stock-footage-in-the-monitor gag. What "War Zone" mostly is, is unnecessary. There isn't anything in the episode in terms of the mission or the characters that isn't covered better, with more action and more economy in "Racing the Night".
We "get" Gideon, the ship and the mission in the teaser. We "get" Chambers, and Max before we're out of the first scene. We get an intriguing look at Dureena, and learn about Galen and his odd relation to both the crew and the Gideon before the end of act one, even though we never see him, only hear his voice. "Racing the Night" is put togther like a Swiss watch, and it should be studied by anyone who wants to learn how to write a first episode for a TV series.
By the end of the episode we've got a bead on almost every character except Matheson, and their relationships, and as a bonus we get the mystery of the Apocalypse Box in the tag. When "Racing the Night" finally rolled around in the TNT order I suddenly saw the show that JMS had been talking about as S5 rolled around. Although I came to like some of the "black uniform" shows better the second time around (in large part because the Sci-Fi order works in terms of episode pacing as well as story) it was during the last five weeks of the TNT run that I really became a fan of the show-that-could-have-been.
Regards,
Joe
------------------
Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net
KoshN
Super Moderator
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:
Brain spasm. I meant "Each Night I Dream of Home" typed "Racing the Night". (Hey, both titles have the word "Night" in them, so I was close.
)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I usually do that with Ruling from the Tomb and Rules of the Game.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
As for Max in "War Zone" - yeah, he was OK. Max usually is.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The more I watch Crusade, the more I become a fan of Max. He gets some of the best lines, the ones you have to think about a bit. I hated it when Chen's music stepped all over his lines (with those loud gongs).
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
But that doesn't make up for the mutiny, the fist fight,
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
... the lack of references to B5 and Sheridan,
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That doesn't bother me all that much.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
... the endless fraggin' exposition
or the cheesy stock-footage-in-the-monitor gag.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
What "War Zone" mostly is, is unnecessary.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The absolute WORST thing about "War Zone" is that it took up a spot that could have been filled by To the Ends of the Earth.
as Hell. I wonder what ratings that one might have gotten!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
There isn't anything in the episode in terms of the mission or the characters that isn't covered better, with more action and more economy in "Racing the Night".
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I completely agree w.r.t. "Racing the Night."
------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire
"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
Brain spasm. I meant "Each Night I Dream of Home" typed "Racing the Night". (Hey, both titles have the word "Night" in them, so I was close.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I usually do that with Ruling from the Tomb and Rules of the Game.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
As for Max in "War Zone" - yeah, he was OK. Max usually is.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The more I watch Crusade, the more I become a fan of Max. He gets some of the best lines, the ones you have to think about a bit. I hated it when Chen's music stepped all over his lines (with those loud gongs).
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
But that doesn't make up for the mutiny, the fist fight,
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
... the lack of references to B5 and Sheridan,
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That doesn't bother me all that much.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
... the endless fraggin' exposition
or the cheesy stock-footage-in-the-monitor gag.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
What "War Zone" mostly is, is unnecessary.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The absolute WORST thing about "War Zone" is that it took up a spot that could have been filled by To the Ends of the Earth.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
There isn't anything in the episode in terms of the mission or the characters that isn't covered better, with more action and more economy in "Racing the Night".
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I completely agree w.r.t. "Racing the Night."
------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire
"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> The pesky aliens screwing with the Excalibur in The Well of Forever.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That wasn't a TNT "payback".
That was a little nod at the FANS. The creatures which they encountered were "The Fen".
Fen is the accepted plural of FAN.
They were described as slow, not too smart and attracted to Bright Shiney Objects.
Oh, and they like to have Sex with Starships.
JMS started out as a FAN. He still is. He gets to make fun of himself and his friends.
------------------
Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That wasn't a TNT "payback".
That was a little nod at the FANS. The creatures which they encountered were "The Fen".
Fen is the accepted plural of FAN.
They were described as slow, not too smart and attracted to Bright Shiney Objects.
Oh, and they like to have Sex with Starships.
JMS started out as a FAN. He still is. He gets to make fun of himself and his friends.
------------------
Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?
My tapes are from the first time it was shown and are in the original order so I usually just watch them in that order. That gets the first one out of the way and forgotten in short order. Also the change in uniforms makes more sense.
However, next time I will try and watch them in the correct order and see if I notice any big difference.
------------------
However, next time I will try and watch them in the correct order and see if I notice any big difference.
------------------
