B5TV.COM. Babylon 5 forums Babylon 5 message for the fans from Claudia Christian Babylon 5
Old March 21st 09, 15:05   #171
Recoil
First One
 
Recoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 7,991
Re: New Joss Whedon show

I think I was able to sum up my feelings on what this show is missing and describe it so it makes sense. First off, I wasn't really expecting it to be like Buffy/Angel/Firefly with quirky dialogue and humor. I enjoy lots of other shows that don't have that just fine. It just feels like it is missing something...

As best as I can describe it, this show itself feels to me like the "dolls" are when they are in their "Blank Slate" mode at the Dollhouse. Plain, sterile, but nothing under the surface. No Soul. Like the show still hasn't found itself.

While it may be interesting for the characters themselves to be this way, for the entire show to have that feeling to me doesnt seem right. I'm sure its not intentional or what they were going after, but Im just using that to describe my feeling about it in the terms of the show itself.
__________________
The Operative: "Do you know what your sin is?"
Malcom Reynolds: "Aw hell, I'm a fan of all seven... but right now, I'm gonna have to go with Wrath."
Recoil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st 09, 20:29   #172
vacantlook
Moderator
 
vacantlook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Virginia
Posts: 11,892
Re: New Joss Whedon show

I think a lot of the episodes so far have been a bit more stand-alone than they could've been, and this whole word floating around on the net that Joss says the show gets significantly better starting around episode 6 makes me think the stand-alonishness of these early episodes are out of network influence.
vacantlook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st 09, 23:12   #173
KoshFan
Soul Hunter
 
KoshFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The upper left-hand corner of the US
Posts: 10,566
Re: New Joss Whedon show

I'm very intrigued by all that's going on, too.

As always with Whedon shows, it's the relationships that are really coming through. Paul and Mellie (Helo and Neighbor Girl) make a pretty good couple -- although things moved much faster there than I thought they would! Sierra and Victor are very cute. Saunders and Boyd are starting to seem like protective parental partners, especially in the last shot of them standing close together watching Sierra and Victor. And, in a twist I'd like to see played out, the top security guy seems kind of sweet on Boss Lady, to me.
__________________
Know what you do.

The Generous Grasp
KoshFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st 09, 23:53   #174
vacantlook
Moderator
 
vacantlook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Virginia
Posts: 11,892
Re: New Joss Whedon show

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoshFan View Post
...although things moved much faster there than I thought they would!
I think he took the leap from just friendly neighbors to sex friends because of his conversation with that guy that had hired Echo so he could pretend she was his wife. Had he been left to move at his own pace, the relationship would've progressed a bit slower, probably, but that guy was all like, "who do you have if you're not obsessing over Echo" (paraphrased), and that triggered him to move faster.

Quote:
Sierra and Victor are very cute.
Victor is cute.
vacantlook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22nd 09, 02:51   #175
Jade Jaguar
First One
 
Jade Jaguar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Ann Arbor, Mi, USA
Posts: 9,727
Re: New Joss Whedon show

Quote:
Originally Posted by vacantlook View Post
I think he took the leap from just friendly neighbors to sex friends because of his conversation with that guy that had hired Echo so he could pretend she was his wife. Had he been left to move at his own pace, the relationship would've progressed a bit slower, probably, but that guy was all like, "who do you have if you're not obsessing over Echo" (paraphrased), and that triggered him to move faster.
True. That was pretty obvious.

So, what is the REAL goal of all the "Doll Houses?" About the only thing I can imagine is total world domination, probably programming political leaders?
__________________
"Those who would give up essential liberty
to purchase a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin 1775

"I know that the hypnotized never lie... Do ya?"
Pete Townshend 1971

FREE LEONARD PELTIER
Jade Jaguar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22nd 09, 03:54   #176
KoshFan
Soul Hunter
 
KoshFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The upper left-hand corner of the US
Posts: 10,566
Re: New Joss Whedon show

Jade, I expect from where they stand, they do dominate the world. They've got ties with bigwigs and fat cats the world over, they're rolling in dough, they have assassins and sleeper agents on command... and nobody argues with them because nobody knows they exist, except the "right people." They're extremely powerful and extremely behind the throne.
__________________
Know what you do.

The Generous Grasp
KoshFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22nd 09, 04:10   #177
Jade Jaguar
First One
 
Jade Jaguar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Ann Arbor, Mi, USA
Posts: 9,727
Re: New Joss Whedon show

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoshFan View Post
Jade, I expect from where they stand, they do dominate the world. They've got ties with bigwigs and fat cats the world over, they're rolling in dough, they have assassins and sleeper agents on command... and nobody argues with them because nobody knows they exist, except the "right people." They're extremely powerful and extremely behind the throne.
Well, I would call that a lot of strong influence, but not directly calling all the shots themselves. Could be they want more overt control. And, obviously someone, or more likely some ones know they exist, and are trying to thwart, or at least learn, their plans.
__________________
"Those who would give up essential liberty
to purchase a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin 1775

"I know that the hypnotized never lie... Do ya?"
Pete Townshend 1971

FREE LEONARD PELTIER
Jade Jaguar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22nd 09, 16:51   #178
Cell
Telepath
 
Cell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Crystal Lake, IL
Posts: 525
Re: New Joss Whedon show

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoshFan View Post
Saunders and Boyd are starting to seem like protective parental partners
I'd really like my protective parental figures to allow me to go out and be used as a hooker with no memory of it all the time, to be raped, beaten up and abused. That's what I want from my parental figures. Seriously though, that is one of my main problems with the show. Outside of Ballard there isn't a sympathetic character on the show. The doc and Boyd are just as despicable as the people running the dollhouse, they enable the situation, that's not sympathetic, that's even worse than the people in power because they could walk away but instead they continue to receive their paycheck and talk about wanting to do good while the doc makes sure the girls are healthy enough to go be hookers and Boyd makes sure to be there for back-up in case someone decides to get too rough with hooker Echo. Essentially Boyd is Echo's pimp and the doc is his helpful doctor friend, both pretty horrendous. Unless of course Boyd ends up being a plant and the doc is a doll herself, in that case there is actual sympathy to be had.

All that said, I did like this last week's episode, outside if the ridiculousness of Ballard using a nerve punch in a fight in 2009. You can't make sure to show a guy practicing muay Thai in one episode and have him be an FBI agent and then use a nerve punch, that's just ludicrous. Noitb a single person who practices muay Thai and has taken the hand to hand combat courses of the FBI would use something as patently useless as a nerve punch. Still, it's a minor point of what I thought was a really good episode.
__________________
"When you have reached the end of the road then you can decide whether to go to the left or the right, to fire or to water. If you make those decisions before you have even set foot upon the road it will take you nowhere." - Galen
Cell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22nd 09, 23:47   #179
KoshFan
Soul Hunter
 
KoshFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The upper left-hand corner of the US
Posts: 10,566
Re: New Joss Whedon show

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cell View Post
Seriously though, that is one of my main problems with the show. Outside of Ballard there isn't a sympathetic character on the show. The doc and Boyd are just as despicable as the people running the dollhouse, they enable the situation
I think that's the point, actually. We haven't seen any real good guys except Echo herself -- and who knows why Caroline was in so much trouble? Ballard's the theoretical moral force but his motives are very suspect, considering his fixation on Echo. Mellie's a good person -- except she's also a Doll, and therefore she's not necessarily good, she's just built that way.

But we're also not seeing a lot of totally evil people, either -- Adelle obviously cares for the Dolls even as she uses them, and Dominic the Security Jerk might very well be such an ass towards Echo out of concern for Adelle. Hearn (the handler who was raping Sierra) was probably the worst person we've seen on the show so far. Even the clients are mostly understandable. First client wanted his daughter back, third client wanted his charge protected, fourth was trying to recover stolen property to give it as a gift to the rightful owners... yeah, they're all taking part in an ugly business, no excuses. But they aren't pure evil. Even "Most Dangerous Game" guy may well have been doing it all to help Echo recover herself.

No white, not much black, mostly gray.
__________________
Know what you do.

The Generous Grasp
KoshFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd 09, 01:34   #180
Jade Jaguar
First One
 
Jade Jaguar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Ann Arbor, Mi, USA
Posts: 9,727
Re: New Joss Whedon show

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoshFan View Post

No white, not much black, mostly gray.
Charcoal gray... at best.
__________________
"Those who would give up essential liberty
to purchase a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin 1775

"I know that the hypnotized never lie... Do ya?"
Pete Townshend 1971

FREE LEONARD PELTIER
Jade Jaguar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:17.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2008 B5TV.COM