B5TV.COM. Babylon 5 forums Babylon 5 message for the fans from Claudia Christian Babylon 5

Go Back   B5TV.COM > Babylon 5, Crusade and Rangers > B5.world

View Poll Results: Which avatar?
A -- Excellent 3 12.00%
B -- Good 19 76.00%
C -- Average 3 12.00%
D -- Poor 0 0%
F -- Failure 0 0%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 26th 11, 05:18   #21
hypatia
First One
 
hypatia's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 27,446
Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies

Could the Gregorian chant be music's Swedish Meatballs?

__________________
"If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal."
-- Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot
hypatia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th 11, 14:52   #22
Alexa
Ambassador
 
Alexa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 330
Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies

LOL
__________________
"The wheel turns, does it not?"
Alexa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th 11, 00:46   #23
vacantlook
Moderator
 
vacantlook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Virginia
Posts: 11,909
Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies

Hmm.

The pak'ma'ra sing on Babylon 5.

The Ood sing on Doctor Who.

What is it about singing tentacle-faces?
vacantlook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th 11, 11:32   #24
Alexa
Ambassador
 
Alexa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 330
Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies

They are strangely compelling
__________________
"The wheel turns, does it not?"
Alexa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th 11, 03:36   #25
Jade Jaguar
First One
 
Jade Jaguar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Ann Arbor, Mi, USA
Posts: 9,726
Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sindatur View Post
So...this isn't an established fact? Damn, I thought this was a foregone conclusion. Now I have to face the possibility it's a silly Fanboi interpretation?
It's not anything verified via JMS or the script, no. But I've always felt is was the pak'ma'ra, too. Why they were doing a Gregorian chant is anybody's guess, not to mention why they did it regularly enough that we heard them singing it again in "Passing through Gethsemane".

Jan
I, too, have always thought it was the pak'ma'ra. In part, I thought that the "lesson" was that these ugly, disgusting carrion-eaters, looked down on by others, were capable of manifesting such beauty.
__________________
"Those who would give up essential liberty
to purchase a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin 1775

"I know that the hypnotized never lie... Do ya?"
Pete Townshend 1971

FREE LEONARD PELTIER
Jade Jaguar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th 11, 10:26   #26
Alexa
Ambassador
 
Alexa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 330
Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies

Nicely put.
__________________
"The wheel turns, does it not?"
Alexa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 23rd 18, 15:16   #27
Looney
Ambassador
 
Looney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Middle West U.S.
Posts: 473
Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies

Wow! Good discussion. I never placed it as being Pak'Ma'Ra, but I definitely see the reasoning.

So on my scale I rate THERE ALL THE HONOR LIES as an 'A' Episode. It has some weak moments, but I feel it also has some outstanding moments. My biggest disappointment with the episode is that the Emporium doesn't last past this episode. I loved that concept and it shocks me JMS only allowed it to last one episode. I understand that he might not have wanted it to seem like they were pushing merchandise, but still it was a great set and I would have bought out the entire store. Such a great set and such a good idea should have lasted. Plus I look at that sign and it reminds me of the TNT Mall Tour and what might have been. It also reminds me of all the Official Fan Club Merchandise I missed out on. And BTW, there is a T-Shirt visible in the outer kiosk of the Emporium that I'm pretty sure was available for a time. Others would know better than I do, but my crazy memory keeps saying it was actually a t-shirt you could buy back then. Of course, my memory could just be remembering that "5" symbol because it was always one of my favorite Babylon 5 emblems.

The Vir stuff is great. We get another instance of Londo having to deal with a situation his ambition and ego have created. I love hearing what Vir is dealing with.

The Sheridan/Minbari stuff is pretty good. I REALLY like that Lennier conducting his own investigation. I love the moment of perfect beauty for what it is and for how absolutely out of left field it is. And one of my favorite parts of it is the shot of Kosh just standing in the disheveled corridor listening. I feel like he could easily clean up that mess. Plus the orientation of the shot makes me think of the shock of a random Lurker coming around the corner and just seeing the Vorlon standing in that corridor.

BTW, have I mentioned lately how much I love the Babylon 5 encyclopedia?! Well I do!
Looney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th 18, 14:47   #28
Looney
Ambassador
 
Looney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Middle West U.S.
Posts: 473
Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies

I forgot to add two things.

I love the Lennier investigation because of the interaction with Garibaldi, but I also love it because it gives us some slight glimpse into where Lennier is coming from. And I think I love this aspect most because it is a reminder that for all of their fancy intentions Minbari will lie. I think that is a great thing about this episode. It is a reminder that the Minbari strive for this honorable moral cultural ideal, but that becomes a struggle when the realities of life get in the way.

The second thing is
I JUST REALIZED THAT THE LAST POSTER BEFORE ME IN THIS THREAD WAS ALEXA. NOW I KNOW WHAT SHE WAS DOING BEFORE AMAZON GOT A HOLD OF HER.
Looney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd 18, 01:51   #29
Lennier's Tears
Ambassador
 
Lennier's Tears's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: DC-ish
Posts: 322
Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies

For me, the most intriguing aspect of this episode is the glimpses of information we get about Minbari clans. We never really learn more about them, do we? It seems like they are VERY important, but it's not necessarily immediately obvious what clan someone belongs to. Prior to this episode I think we only learned about two other clans, both Warrior Caste ones: the Star Riders and the Wind Swords. Presumably Religious Caste clans are a bit different. I'd love to know more!

I'm somewhat puzzled about the reactions to the gift shop. To my 21st century mind, the concept doesn't seem that weird or offensive. What place in our present does NOT have a gift shop? Clearly capitalism is alive and well in the B5 universe, so ... I am confused. That said, some of the stuff actually for sale in that shop .... Who ever thought THAT would be a good idea?? Action figures of actual diplomats?? Did Earth not just get out of a war that almost wiped out the entire human race, all based on a misunderstanding? I hope whoever signed off on those lost their job over this The "JS" teddy bear seemed among the less offensive stuff in there ... And what kind of asshole spaces a teddy bear??

As for the whole "get rid of Sheridan" plot and investigation: I was a little surprised that Sheridan, being the accused, was actually allowed to go and talk to the witness himself. Presumably that privilege isn't extended to just any accused person, he just gets to do it because he's the Captain. Sheridan wants to keep the motive a secret so as to protect Lennier's clan's honor, in exchange for a statement from Ashan about what he really saw. That's pretty noble and all, but aren't people going to know what clan Levell was anyway, and isn't that going to still dishonor the clan? I was also suddenly wondering if Lennier has ever forgiven Sheridan for the Black Star. How does he feel about this whole thing, I wonder.

Count me among the fans of "One moment of perfect beauty." I also always think of that scene when Vir talks about hearing the Pak'ma'ra. But, I was never really convinced it was actually them. I can sort of buy them doing the Gregorian chant because they have a repertoire that includes music from all kinds of worlds and are singing for a human audience in this case, but ... I dunno. I actually kind of wonder if that whole thing even really happened. There's a scene of Kosh waiting outside the door, where the music can be heard, but does that mean it really did happen? I don't know. Kosh could easily just project something into Sheridan's mind. It seems a little weird that there would be this group of people just hanging out in an abandoned part of Downbelow, just waiting for someone to give them a trinket so they can start singing. Or, of course, Kosh arranged for them to be there.

So many questions! :P
__________________
I think we're well beyond pastels now.
Lennier's Tears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd 18, 12:16   #30
Looney
Ambassador
 
Looney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Middle West U.S.
Posts: 473
Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lennier's Tears View Post
For me, the most intriguing aspect of this episode is the glimpses of information we get about Minbari clans. We never really learn more about them, do we? It seems like they are VERY important, but it's not necessarily immediately obvious what clan someone belongs to. Prior to this episode I think we only learned about two other clans, both Warrior Caste ones: the Star Riders and the Wind Swords. Presumably Religious Caste clans are a bit different. I'd love to know more!

I'm somewhat puzzled about the reactions to the gift shop. To my 21st century mind, the concept doesn't seem that weird or offensive. What place in our present does NOT have a gift shop? Clearly capitalism is alive and well in the B5 universe, so ... I am confused. That said, some of the stuff actually for sale in that shop .... Who ever thought THAT would be a good idea?? Action figures of actual diplomats?? Did Earth not just get out of a war that almost wiped out the entire human race, all based on a misunderstanding? I hope whoever signed off on those lost their job over this The "JS" teddy bear seemed among the less offensive stuff in there ... And what kind of asshole spaces a teddy bear??

As for the whole "get rid of Sheridan" plot and investigation: I was a little surprised that Sheridan, being the accused, was actually allowed to go and talk to the witness himself. Presumably that privilege isn't extended to just any accused person, he just gets to do it because he's the Captain. Sheridan wants to keep the motive a secret so as to protect Lennier's clan's honor, in exchange for a statement from Ashan about what he really saw. That's pretty noble and all, but aren't people going to know what clan Levell was anyway, and isn't that going to still dishonor the clan? I was also suddenly wondering if Lennier has ever forgiven Sheridan for the Black Star. How does he feel about this whole thing, I wonder.

Count me among the fans of "One moment of perfect beauty." I also always think of that scene when Vir talks about hearing the Pak'ma'ra. But, I was never really convinced it was actually them. I can sort of buy them doing the Gregorian chant because they have a repertoire that includes music from all kinds of worlds and are singing for a human audience in this case, but ... I dunno. I actually kind of wonder if that whole thing even really happened. There's a scene of Kosh waiting outside the door, where the music can be heard, but does that mean it really did happen? I don't know. Kosh could easily just project something into Sheridan's mind. It seems a little weird that there would be this group of people just hanging out in an abandoned part of Downbelow, just waiting for someone to give them a trinket so they can start singing. Or, of course, Kosh arranged for them to be there.

So many questions! :P
Yes so many questions. I will address thoughts on the gift shop. I think the key reason the JS teddy bear was offensive to Sheridan is the same reason the figure was offensive to Londo, it undermines their position of authority. Much of this episode deals with keeping up appearances right down to the plot against Sheridan. Keeping up appearances would be crucial to people dealing in diplomacy. Something viewed as a toy based on the image or likeness of someone trying to project an image of authority and power would naturally be met with a negative reaction. How can you take a military governor seriously when you are holding the teddy bear version of that military governor?

And now I am out of time......

(Side note: When I previewed this post the"r" and the "n: in governor appears like an "m". I did not put an "m" there. )
Looney is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 14:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2018 B5TV.COM