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Old May 2nd 09, 21:42   #241
Jade Jaguar
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Re: New Joss Whedon show

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Here's what I'm thinking at this point. Alpha and Echo sort of had a thing with each other, just more further along developed, like Victor and Sierra started to have in this season. But then, I really need to rewatch the episode to get a better sense of everything that happened there at the end of the episode.
Alpha reprogrammed Echo, but obviously not as Caroline. So, perhaps he met Echo at the Dollhouse, or in one of her personas. But, I don't think he knew her as Caroline, unless perhaps Caroline had spurned him, and he wanted to make her into someone who would want him.
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Old May 2nd 09, 22:32   #242
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Re: New Joss Whedon show

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Did no one else catch when Ballard more or less said HE was a doll? It was when he saw Victor, who he said he had known his whole life, which struck me as rather strange.
I don't remember Ballard saying he was a doll or him saying that he had known Lubov (Victor's Russian mafia imprint) his whole life. I remember him seeing Victor and freaking out wondering if anything in his life was real, but I didn't interpret that as him calling himself a doll.
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Old May 2nd 09, 22:36   #243
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Re: New Joss Whedon show

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Cell, every week your whole reaction seems to be in finding what you see as fault in the show. Why bother waiting until a possible second season to stop watching since you don't seem to get any enjoyment out of the show now?
I started the first season and enjoyed the first 7 or so episodes, but then Joss seriously screwed up by moralizing every episode and the show has gone downhill since then. Because I'm this far, I'll at least finish the first season.

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The Dollhouse designer persona that Alpha was using expressed fear that the Dollhouse would have him killed, yes, but he also eventually expressed fear (as fake as it might have been given that he was playing Ballard) that Ballard would kill him too when Ballard pulled out his gun in the apartment of weed. Plus, the persona Alpha was playing was someone who's hyper-anxious; if you've never dealt with a person in real life that uncontrollably experiences hyper-anxiety, then it might seem stupid to you, but it made sense to me, even if scripted a bit for comical effect. Hyper-anxious people can be easily intimidated. Plus, Alpha has a lot of really weird shit floating around in his head thanks to the whole composite event that made him what he is; I wouldn't be surprised if the high-anxiety bit wasn't completely faked but part of one of Alpha's past imprints coming out amongst all the crazy floating around in his head.
The problem is that Ballard never once came across as menacing, and later he even told Alpha flat out that if he didn't cooperate he would report his weed to the feds and send him to jail. So, the shroud of Ballard killing him was gone, but he still went along, I never bought that, not for a second.

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Ballard's shown himself to be impulsive plenty before now, so it doesn't seem any different to me now that he's become little more than his obsession for getting Caroline out of the Dollhouse. That obsession easily could be making him not thinking everything though as thoroughly as someone else might would.

He hasn't been shown to be stupid though, and last night he was shown to be incredibly stupid, something I didn't buy. If they had followed through with the breaking point theme then I would have bought it, but the writers, and Tamoah, portrayed Ballard as normal the entire episode, not someone at their last wits on this issue.

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Cell, have you ever wondered if you're in the wrong line of work? You keep watching things you don't like...
Not really, most of what I watch I like. Dollhouse is the only show I watch that I find to be mediocre and I didn't find it to be that way until recently. Plus, it's by the team behind Firefly, so I will at the very least give it a shot, but so far it's been a big let down.
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Old May 2nd 09, 23:07   #244
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Re: New Joss Whedon show

Huh. Well, it just seems you're often very critical of things that I like a lot, and it bugs me. Part of it is, my "willing suspension of disbelief" is extremely strong until other people start pointing out problems, after which I can't ignore them. So I may be shooting the messenger.

Also, Whedon does nothing but moralizing.
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Old May 2nd 09, 23:49   #245
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Re: New Joss Whedon show

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I don't remember Ballard saying he was a doll or him saying that he had known Lubov (Victor's Russian mafia imprint) his whole life. I remember him seeing Victor and freaking out wondering if anything in his life was real, but I didn't interpret that as him calling himself a doll.
I took it as a hint that he was wondering if HE might be a Doll. Otherwise, why wouldn't something in his life be real? But, I don't really think he IS a Doll, just that he is freaking out about this stuff...
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Old May 2nd 09, 23:52   #246
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Re: New Joss Whedon show

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I took it as a hint that he was wondering if HE might be a Doll. Otherwise, why wouldn't something in his life be real? But, I don't really think he IS a Doll, just that he is freaking out about this stuff...
His life is centered around his obsession with the doll house. His girlfriend is a doll, his mafia informant has now been revealed to be a doll. I can totally see why he would start to think, "Damn, is anything in my life real"? With his obsession, and the loss of his job, those really are the only things in his life
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Old May 2nd 09, 23:56   #247
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Re: New Joss Whedon show

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. If they had followed through with the breaking point theme then I would have bought it, but the writers, and Tamoah, portrayed Ballard as normal the entire episode, not someone at their last wits on this issue.


.
I can't agree with you there. Ballard has quite obviously been growing progressively more obsessed, and more aggitated. True, he doesn't act out on it as overtly as some, i.e. Alpha. Also true, he isn't really at his wit's end, but someone can be quite aggitated, increasingly so, without being at their wit's end. Some stay in that state almost continuously...
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Old May 3rd 09, 00:00   #248
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Re: New Joss Whedon show

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His life is centered around his obsession with the doll house. His girlfriend is a doll, his mafia informant has now been revealed to be a doll. I can totally see why he would start to think, "Damn, is anything in my life real"? With his obsession, and the loss of his job, those really are the only things in his life
I don't really disagree with that, I was just thinking they were hinting at the possibility of something deeper, probably as a red herring.
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Old May 3rd 09, 00:06   #249
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Re: New Joss Whedon show

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I don't really disagree with that, I was just thinking they were hinting at the possibility of something deeper, probably as a red herring.
Heh, to be honest, prior to this episode, I did wonder if Ballard may actually be Alpha and not kow it, what with the way everyone is dolls.
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Old May 3rd 09, 00:42   #250
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Re: New Joss Whedon show

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I took it as a hint that he was wondering if HE might be a Doll. Otherwise, why wouldn't something in his life be real? But, I don't really think he IS a Doll, just that he is freaking out about this stuff...
I saw that bit as him just being hyperbolic or perhaps nihilistic but not that he was actually considering his being a doll to be an actual possibility.
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