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Sabotage?

Adam Hayes

New member
I sometimes wonder if there is a definite attempt to sabotage the chances of B5 being successful in the UK. What with the erratic TV scheduling policy we had to endure during the series and the total absence of trailering for the first showing of series 4 and 5. Now after waiting SOOO long for DVD format to be released (have you seen some of the rubbish that has been rushed out onto DVD?) another attempt is in progress to scupper sales and leave fans grinding their teeth. It would seem if you compare Amazon with Amazon UK that we are going to have to wait till March for the DVD (OK what is another 3 months?) Then we are going to be allowed to buy "In the Beginning" and the pilot movie on seperate DVDs and pay $26.00 each as well. A good value purchase for general DVD viewers to hook them into the great epic that is the B5 story is at a stroke turned into product only die hard B5 fans will be buying. Is it a conspiracy or just greed?

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(Un)fortunetly just greed.

Warner would never try to sabotage their own profit. But they will accomplish the same results by using the infinite stupidity they have always used.

Which, in my opinion, is another example of why the region code system really exists: to divide the market and reap higher profits.

This is also why I never cease to remind: we as consumers should do our best to bring the region code system down (by using region-free equipment or only Region 1 disks).

The Region 1 disk is available for about 14 US dollars and can be ordered directly (assuming that you have a multiregion DVD player). If you search well, you may find the R2 disks for about 19 pounds apiece, but no less.

I personally live in R3, which covers most of Eastern Europe, CIS and Russia. The only goal the region code system has achieved here is widespread DVD piracy. Not wishing to go that way, I use only R1 disks.

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"We are the universe, trying to figure itself out.
Unfortunately we as software lack any coherent documentation."
-- Delenn
 
Hmmm... I just saw a few R5 DVDs on sale last week - the ones manufactured for the Estonian market in Russia (since Russia has for some reason the distributing rights in our region) - and I have actually heard this before from other sources, I just wasn't sure.

We aren't R3, we are R5. Officially. Of course, the great majority of DVDs sold here are R2 - as are the players.

Yes, I think I'll stick to R1, just to add to the confusion.
laugh.gif


Edit note: I was right. R3 is Southeast Asia and East Asia, R5 is Eastern Europe, Russia, Africa, India, North Korea and Mongolia.

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"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com

[This message has been edited by Kribu (edited December 18, 2001).]
 
When it comes to the UK - you can usually trace things back to the BBC or Rupert Murdoch, which ever comes first when trying to see Tony Blair...
wink.gif


If a member of the Berne Convention - you can do pretty much what you like for private viewing enjoyment. Most retailers don't realize that they can cater to the consumer differently from the business customer and while it is an intricate legal matter, I sincerely doubt that there is any reason to think anyone would challenge any avenue of private viewing, no matter the R number. Of course, it may depend on how 'activist' the ECM wants to be.

Of course, I might be crazy and this is Hebrew for cloning...
smile.gif


Gary

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>The Region 1 disk is available for about 14 US dollars and can be ordered directly (assuming that you have a multiregion DVD player). If you search well, you may find the R2 disks for about 19 pounds apiece, but no less.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're really not searching that hard then - http://www.play247.com comes straight to mind. £14.99 each on preorder, post free, and like as not that'll be their permenant price given past record.

Will they do well at that price - probably and they will in fact be the only copies you can legally buy in the UK (and that is a certification issue, nothing at all to do with the region code...).

That said, I bought the US disk, rebellious little scamp that I am.

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Paddy Sinclair

"I think it's an excellent plan. But then, I've been shot through the head on five or six occasions"- Troop Leader Keitel, The Corps
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I sometimes wonder if there is a definite attempt to sabotage the chances of B5 being successful in the UK.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity." - Anonymous

smile.gif


Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

joseph-demartino@att.net
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Adam Hayes:
I sometimes wonder if there is a definite attempt to sabotage the chances of B5 being successful in the UK. What with the erratic TV scheduling policy we had to endure during the series and the total absence of trailering for the first showing of series 4 and 5.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...and don't forget that the last five eps of S5 were shown at 11am in the middle of some awful kids tv section with C4 logos plastered over the screen...
wink.gif


to be fair to WHV (me? fair to those bastards?!) we are at least safe in lording it over everyone else in that the entire series and films were released on VHS in order and quite nicely packaged... i believe i'm right that the States never got that far?

our last best hope for B5 on DVD may be that the (presumed) success of the VHS releases means that the UK is in with a shout of the series on DVD - irrespective of what happens in the States.

as joe often points out (usually as i say something stupid!) the US seem to be a lot less geared up towards releasing TV shows onto DVD or VHS than over here... (more tv channels or something...
wink.gif
)

cheers!



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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Will they do well at that price - probably and they will in fact be the only copies you can legally buy in the UK (and that is a certification issue, nothing at all to do with the region code...).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow! I didn't know this!!

So, I assume that the same would apply to VHS video tapes as well.

This does concern me slightly. I was on the point of ordering the R1 disk from Amazon.com, but as a Christian I would have a problem with doing that if it was actually illegal to do so!

(I would add that I have no criticizm of anyone else for doing it - just that I would have a problem doing it myself!).

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DaveC
"Want to talk socks?"
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>This does concern me slightly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am much more concerned by the existence of the region code system, which by many standards is simply illegal. Ignoring an illegal system to practise my rights is natural. You might want to know why I consider it illegal, suggesting that everyone do the same.

1. Copyright violation.

Movie studios as copyright holders have exceeded their rights. Copyright holders have no right to determine in which country their material can be used.

Legal holders of copyrighted material are entitled to use it regardless of their location. Books can be read in any country. Audio disks can be listened to in any country. DVD movies are no exception.

2. A violation of free competition.

Distribution should go along efficient and competitive channels. Hollywood is trying to artificially enforce "established distribution patterns" long after they have become obsolete and obstructive.

In doing this, they are suppressing free competition, propping up their official distributors -- not by the means of perfectly legal contracts or agreements, but by the means of an illegal and unacceptable region code system.

3. A violation of free trade.

International free trade agreements are designed to allow equal competition between producers and distributors of goods -- for the sake of efficiency and a healthy economic climate.

By trying to restrict the exports and imports of DVD disks via all channels but their own, Hollywood is essentially (if not formally) breaking international trade law.

4. Censorship.

Inhibiting the exchange of ideas and information on a geographical basis qualifies as censorship.

-----

This is why I consider the region code system illegal and consider ignoring it my duty. More info at www.opendvd.org

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited December 18, 2001).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>International free trade agreements are designed to allow equal competition between producers and distributors of goods <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hah! You might consider informing the E.U. about this. They don't appear to be aware of the concept.
smile.gif


Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

joseph-demartino@att.net
 
I was just wondering: if the aim of the whole region coding thing is really to protect local distributors etc, why are old movies and old TV shows region coded?

Surely, if a movie 10-30 years old is now transferred to DVD, the "protection" issue should be out of the question? Same with TV series which have been out of production for quite a few years?

If protection were really the only issue, shouldn't these older movies and shows be released as Region 0 DVDs? (As, obviously, not all of them get a simultaneous release as separate region DVDs, and often are released only as R1.)

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"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Hah! You might consider informing the E.U. about this. They don't appear to be aware of the concept.
smile.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Definitely. But not only the EU.

Half of the world should be reminded of this. No country is too keen for removing artificial competition (dis)advantages when it might hurt their interests. They prefer the approach of "do as I say, not as I do".
smile.gif


That's why the trade agreements are there in the first place. To give legal grounds for a larger community to annoy those who get too carried away with protectionism.

And to prevent influential companies or unions thereof (like MPAA for example) from outlobbying (as opposed to outcompeting) their competitors.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I was just wondering: if the aim of the whole region coding thing is really to protect local distributors etc, why are old movies and old TV shows region coded?

Surely, if a movie 10-30 years old is now transferred to DVD, the "protection" issue should be out of the question?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To be honest, Kribu, you just hit the nail on its head. Short, exact and perfectly understandable.
laugh.gif


[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited December 18, 2001).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> So 30 year old movies are region-coded along with everything else "just to be on the safe side."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, there is a semi good reason for that.

If they get all the DVD manufacturers to go along with the region coding scam, DVDs that Don't have any region coding will probably end up not working at all in many players.



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The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!
 
My view on these things is that they originally happen by accident. The slothful failure to fix them is deliberate.

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Andrew Swallow
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I was just wondering: if the aim of the whole region coding thing is really to protect local distributors etc, why are old movies and old TV shows region coded?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bureaucratic ineretia, reflex-action corporate butt-covering: It is easier, when dealing with something like region-codes, to automatically slap them on everything than it is to make decisions (for which may someday be held accountable) than it is to apply the broad brush.

This was a predictable side-effect of region-coding, but it is not necessary to the system, and was never intended to be part and parcel of it - conspiracy theories to the contrary. This isn't the deliberate action of a great and evil cabal, this is the haphazard action of dozens of little men and women afraid for their jobs. Actions exactly like this happen all the time in organizations all over the world.

At my company we don't have access to the internet because a couple of people abused the privilege and stupidly went to porn sites. To the beauracratic mind the simply solution is to apply a ban to everyone, rather than do the difficult thing of firing the troublemakers, giving limited access to most users and unlimited access to the trustworthy. Because that would mean actually finding out who the trustworthy are and making a value judgment that could later be questioned.

So 30 year old movies are region-coded along with everything else "just to be on the safe side."

Again, "never attribut to malice..."

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

joseph-demartino@att.net
 
I still find this whole Region Code thin slightly baffling - at least there seemed some technological logic behind NTSC video tapes not working on my PAL VHS player !!

When you look at how quickly audio storage and computer tech have moved on in the last 10 years, how long will it realistically be before you can rip a DVD movie off the disk onto your Hard Drive and share it online, as can already be done with audio CDs. That was unthinkable 10 years ago.

Likewise with DVDs.

Many PC users think nothing of downloading a 10Mb telemovie trailer from the web - and as ADSL and cable take a better hold on home web connections there will soon come a time when we think nothing of downloading a couple of Gbs worth of movie.

What value region coding then ??

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DaveC
"Want to talk socks?"
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GaribaldisHair:
When you look at how quickly audio storage and computer tech have moved on in the last 10 years, how long will it realistically be before you can rip a DVD movie off the disk onto your Hard Drive and share it online, as can already be done with audio CDs. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I'm not mistaken, this can already be done. Of course, the sheer size of a movie file has limited the 'sharing', compared to music, but it's done.

BTW, I just read from the back of the case of my B5 DVD that it is prohibited to sell it outside the US and Canada. Yet Amazon and other online stores do it - doesn't that show that WHV (or other studios) has actually no legal ground in prohibiting such action?

As for region coding on old movies - fine, Joe, I'll have it your way.
laugh.gif
I'm willing to believe that the great majority of employees in American DVD industry are incredibly stupid people.

A shame - I would rather have accredited this to the greed of a select few people than an overall wave of stupidity.
wink.gif
Still, it should be fairly easy to make up a few rules regarding this issue - if it's written down in a studio (or the studio's video/DVD arm) policy that movies and TV shows 5 years or older should be Region 0, then that problem could be avoided.

But of course, that would require them to think.
laugh.gif


As for Bakana's suggestion about future DVD-players possibly not being able to read Region 0 DVDs - come on, you can't be serious!
shocked.gif
That would make all the R0 DVDs produced so far (and there are those around, especially disks with music videos/concert footage) unviewable.

Then again, I wouldn't count it out, if stupidity really rules.
crazy.gif


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"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com
 
Not only can you down load entire movies to hard disk but they can be written to ROM. There are now ROM cards able to store an entire movie. Currently they are very expensive 300 to 400 dollars. However within 7 years they ROM sticks will cost about 6 dollars wholesale.

By Easter, Flash Memory cards will be on sale that can record an entire film. To change your computer into a digital video recorder you will simply have to buy your computer a tv decoder.

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Andrew Swallow
 
How about Greed Driven Stupidity.

All else being equal, always bet on Stupidity.



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The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!
 
Greed driven stupidity sounds about right.
laugh.gif


Anyway, now that my brand new DVD player has passed the B5 DVD test well enough, I am more or less certain that I'll stick to R1 DVDs in the future... even though the picture wasn't perfect on my PAL TV, it was close enough, and a great deal better than TV broadcast quality, not to mention VHS.

Plus I got confirmation that my player can indeed play a R1 disk - something one can never be too certain about.
laugh.gif


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"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com
 

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