B5TV.COM. Babylon 5 forums Babylon 5 message for the fans from Claudia Christian Babylon 5

Go Back   B5TV.COM > Babylon 5, Crusade and Rangers > B5.world

View Poll Results: Do You Like Byron?
Yes 7 35.00%
No 13 65.00%
No Opinion 0 0%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 13th 08, 01:38   #11
vacantlook
Moderator
 
vacantlook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Virginia
Posts: 11,892
Re: Do You Like Byron?

One of the best statements that I read of jms's about Bester's villainy was that the monster never sees a monster in the mirror. As Cell says, in Bester's own opinion, everything he did was right. That's what makes Bester such an effective villain.
vacantlook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th 08, 01:42   #12
Garovorkin
Telepath
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: boston
Posts: 612
Re: Do You Like Byron?

Yes Bryron is guilty of of certain actions and inactions/ sins of omissions but at the same time it makes him tragic as well as culpable.
Garovorkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th 08, 01:57   #13
Jade Jaguar
First One
 
Jade Jaguar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Ann Arbor, Mi, USA
Posts: 9,727
Re: Do You Like Byron?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cell View Post
Lord no, easily one of the worst characters in any realm of fiction. RAD is actually a good actor, so I can't help but feel that it was a combination of a bad storyline, bad acting, and paltry writing all coming together to create an abysmal mess. It's not just the fact that Byron is so pretentious, but that's he's a complete dolt that doesn't even know what he is fighting for or how to do it. Brilliant idea, every nation not named the Earth Alliance have treated their teeps very well, so I will go and give a speech damning all of those nations for their negative treatment of teeps. Man, that was just bad writing and storytelling right there.
I disagree with pretty much every word of this.

Byron was written to be a martyr, and I realize most find him unlikeable, but that doesn't make him a "bad" character, either in the sense of his character being a bad person, or poorly formed as a character. I actually liked him from the beginning, just as I did G'Kar. That is because I saw them both as being dedicated to helping their brutally oppressed peoples. But, he didn't go on to become my favorite character, as G'Kar did.

Clearly to me, the major character with the worst character was Bester, a fundamentally evil Nazi type, who was the point man for oppressing Byron and his people. Byron had every reason to hate Bester, and hate mundanes, including other species, because they has sorely used and abused his (human-teep)kind. If there was any failure in the writing, it was that Sheridan, and his crew, were not much more sympathetic to Byron and his people, knowing what they had been through.

Byron was a pacifist, and although I applaud that, I think many couldn't stand that, as it made him, literally, holier-that-thou. His miscalculations all stemmed from not knowing enough about what the galaxy, and its non-humans, and especially those on B5, were really like. Partly this was because of how he had been propagandized, as a member of Psycorps, leading him to be suspicious of all. He probably didn't know that other races treated their teeps well. Undoubtedly, he didn't realize that if he had gone to Delenn on the QT, he might well have negotiated a home world for his people. He did know he was getting nowhere by trying to do it peaceably, and was in fact much at risk of being turned over to Psycorps. Out of desperation, he adopted a nonviolent, but despicable tactic often used by his opponents - spying and blackmail. That brought his downfall. But, I still blame Sheridan for turning his people over to Bester. That was every bit as wrong as turning over Jews to the Nazis.
__________________
"Those who would give up essential liberty
to purchase a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin 1775

"I know that the hypnotized never lie... Do ya?"
Pete Townshend 1971

FREE LEONARD PELTIER
Jade Jaguar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th 08, 02:17   #14
Garovorkin
Telepath
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: boston
Posts: 612
Re: Do You Like Byron?

Your are quite correct, Sherrridan and company were not all that sympathetic to telepaths. Remember when Sherridan gave then sanctuary on Babylon 5 he did so not out of compassion so much as them being a potential strategic asset. Look at how he and veryone treated Lyta Alexander, they used and abused her throughout the series, she put her life on the line and that still counted for nothing. it was Byron who woke Lyta up to this little reality that she was living in. In Bester case what did his concern for goue telepaths amount to? hauling them, Jailing them, mind wiping them and put in new personalities in them. The Rogues telepaths were in a no win situation and Byron saw this from the beginning, he knew what both Bester and Sherridan were about. It was no win for him either way.
Garovorkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th 08, 02:48   #15
Cell
Telepath
 
Cell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Crystal Lake, IL
Posts: 525
Re: Do You Like Byron?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garovorkin View Post
Are we talking about the same Bester who made the comments that Telepaths were rare and that Mundanes bread like rabbbits?
This is a fact, personal feelings on Bester don't change the fact that he was right in saying this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garovorkin View Post
The very same Bester who brainwashed Garabaldi, the outcome of which nearly got Him and Sheridan nearly killed, that Bester oh yeah, real saintly fellow. manipulative backstabbbing lying through his teeth Bester?
No one is saying that Bester was a saint, I certainly didn't. However, he thought he was right in committing his actions, and really how is the hero of the story in Sheridan any better than Bester when you think about some of the actions he undertook to accomplish his goals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garovorkin View Post
Bryon was no saint, but he resigned from the core filed a report of the incident tried to do something, yeah he caused people to die but he did not go on as if none of it happened like Bester did.
Bester caused the death of many through his own actions, while Byron caused the death of many through his own in-actions that then were compounded by his finally taking action that led to even more deaths. Both men are culpable for the deaths of many.
__________________
"When you have reached the end of the road then you can decide whether to go to the left or the right, to fire or to water. If you make those decisions before you have even set foot upon the road it will take you nowhere." - Galen
Cell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th 08, 04:16   #16
Jade Jaguar
First One
 
Jade Jaguar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Ann Arbor, Mi, USA
Posts: 9,727
Re: Do You Like Byron?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cell View Post
Byron caused the death of many through his own in-actions that then were compounded by his finally taking action that led to even more deaths.
Byron tried many "actions" to help his people, but they were non violent actions. He was constantly taking actions to try and help his people. The only thing I can think of that he could have done, and gotten the results he wanted, namely a haven for his rogue teeps, was to quietly approach Delenn, and ask if there was a place they might go in Minbari space. What actions do you think Byron should/could have taken, that might have been effective?
__________________
"Those who would give up essential liberty
to purchase a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin 1775

"I know that the hypnotized never lie... Do ya?"
Pete Townshend 1971

FREE LEONARD PELTIER
Jade Jaguar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th 08, 10:41   #17
RMcD
First One
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 373
Re: Do You Like Byron?

I liked Byron, both the actor and the dialogue.

What bothered me more about those early S5 episodes was that many of the regular cast started acting like they'd been lobotomised. Byron was a welcome diversion.
RMcD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th 08, 13:57   #18
mattikake
Ranger
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 65
Re: Do You Like Byron?

Who's Byron? Oh yeah, some character out of that B4 rip-off series called Babylon 5 series 5. I don't watch it.
__________________
Complexity is only simplicity multiplied. You can understand anything you choose. All you have to do is try. This singular thing is what sets apart the greatest minds, the idealists and the visionaries that have shaped the world you live in, from the endless hordes of mundanes who stopped trying from a very early age...
mattikake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th 08, 14:56   #19
Truth_Seeker
Telepath
 
Truth_Seeker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sofia,Bulgaria
Posts: 500
Re: Do You Like Byron?

I think the whole idea of asking for a homeworld for the human telepaths was rediculous.

A ship-doable.A small space station-difficult bot doable.But an entire planet-that's just impossible.If a planet has the right conditions for human life it's probably already inhabited.Even if there's no intelligent life on it the colonization would interfere with the natural evolution of this planet which is at least immoral.
__________________
"Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."
Truth_Seeker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th 08, 15:17   #20
maneth
Ambassador
 
maneth's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 240
Re: Do You Like Byron?

Possibly, but definitely something humans have attempted and would attempt in the future.

Quite frankly, Sheridan trusted telepaths as little as Ivanova did, and with good reason. Namely that they were a threat to mundanes. The telepaths of other species, what little we have seen of them, don't seem to have this desire to mistreat the non-telepaths of their species, as human ones seem to. So they're not a threat in the same way, and thus get better treatment. At least the Minbari ones do, because they have a system that's as close to communism (community more important and stronger than a single individual, no matter how important) as one can get while still functioning. Let's not forget that the Narns exterminated their telepaths and spent many generations trying to recreate them.
__________________
"Summoned, I come. In Valen's name I take the place that has been prepared for me. I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light."
- Delenn in Grey Council: "Babylon Squared"
maneth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 20:48.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2008 B5TV.COM