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Old November 20th 07, 18:34   #21
RMcD
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Re: We all hate Byron, but...

I like Byron..
Never had a problem with the character, hair, dialogue or actor. I'm not so keen on the string of episodes he appears in, but more because I think they're clunkily constructed, underambitious, and make poor use of the series regulars (especially Sheridan and Delenn), while more or less failing to establish Lochley as an independent character. The Byron scenes are the highlight as far as I'm concerned, though I wish the whole telepath colony plotline was faster moving and featured some better action (other than the steamy telepath on telepath action, I mean, which is fine). I also think Lyta is fantastic, and thanks to Claudia Christian's timely departure she finally gets a chance to shine and a weighty story arc of her own..
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Old November 20th 07, 22:57   #22
A_M_Swallow
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Re: We all hate Byron, but...

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I'm sorry, but this juts doesn't make ANY sense. I cannot think of any leaders of German Jews in exile that started blackmailing the governments that had taken them up as exiles, and making the acts others had committed on them, that their "hosts" were protecting them from, THEIR fault. This analogy would make sense if Jews had attempted to blackmail Oskar Schindler. Alas, they did not.

Well .. I *sort of* can, very sloppily. The establishment of Israel in 1948, which, for all my sympathy with the Jewish sufferings of the time, I consider a episode of history that was both immoral (punishing Arabs for the crimes of Germans - woo!) and bound to go awry.
Some parts of World War 2 are shouted from the hill tops, other bits are covered up. The state of Israel did not just appear, in 1944 the Jews through the organisation called Irgun went to war with the British.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun
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Old November 21st 07, 00:21   #23
Jade Jaguar
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Re: We all hate Byron, but...

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Yeah, my big gripe about Byron is that he played his political cards so, so poorly. Nobody takes well to being threatened, let alone the perpetually paranoid League/Alliance ambassadors... whereas Delenn would have championed Byron to the end of time, if he'd calmed down long enough to go to her. Heck, the Minbari were so rich and so advanced, they might have had a spare planet of their own (or, more likely, knew of such a place) that Delenn could have offered them!
I've often thought the same thing. But, we have to remember that Byron hadn't been watching B5, like we have... He didn't have a complete appreciation of the politics and the players. Otherwise, I think he would have gone to Delenn, and she would have been disposed to help him and his people. Since he wasn't stupid, IMO, his lack of knowledge of the players is the best reason why he didn't enlist Delenn's help. Otherwise, I'd have to call it bad writing, and I don't want to do that...
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Old November 21st 07, 06:33   #24
Stanley
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Re: We all hate Byron, but...

I don't hate Byron. I don't love him, but he wasn't supposed to be lovable. He was a well-meaning individual whose character flaws led to his downfall. He made stupid mistake after stupid mistake, because, deep down, he hated the mundanes just as much as Bester did.

When his followers took the hostages in Medlab, and threatened to kill them because they "were only mundanes," he realized the depth of his failure, which led to his suicide.
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Old November 21st 07, 09:42   #25
Kaz
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Re: We all hate Byron, but...

Well if you excuse the 'flower power' script that Byron as a character recieved, and take his ideals into account, then he's not so bad. Friendly character, unfortunate 60's script.
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Old November 21st 07, 09:48   #26
raw_bean
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Re: We all hate Byron, but...

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Originally Posted by Jade Jaguar View Post
I've often thought the same thing. But, we have to remember that Byron hadn't been watching B5, like we have... He didn't have a complete appreciation of the politics and the players. Otherwise, I think he would have gone to Delenn, and she would have been disposed to help him and his people. Since he wasn't stupid, IMO, his lack of knowledge of the players is the best reason why he didn't enlist Delenn's help. Otherwise, I'd have to call it bad writing, and I don't want to do that...
OK, but if you need something from someone - let's say directions in an unfamiliar town - and you've never met them before and have no idea how well disposed they are to helping strangers, do you:

a) run up and threaten them while insisting that they owe you help, or
b) first of all try asking nicely before you resort to more extreme measures?

I'm not sure it's bad writing so much as writing Byron as a character who makes bad choices.
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