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Old August 6th 07, 22:22   #131
Sindatur
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Re: B5:TLT - Show Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

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Oh Crap! I screwed up. It detected remnants of Valen's DNA in both humans (Sinclair and others) and in Delenn (a child of Valen).




That way leads ot chaos. The Minbari like order, not chaos.
I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if the Minbari simply "forgot" the flying brick existed, or called it a Proto-type or some other excuse for not acknowledging it as the first ship in the Valen class. Although the Minbari never lie, they never tell you the whole truth
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Old August 6th 07, 22:23   #132
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Re: B5:TLT - Show Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

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All religions agree: where there is living human DNA, there is a human soul. You can't have one without the other.
I don't really follow that, isn't the whole point of most religions exactly the opposite? And why single out DNA (which in any case isn't alive)?

Based on what Delenn and Lennier say in Passing Through Gethsemane, Minbari believe that the soul is a non-localised phenomenon. It's a projection from somewhere else and does not exist inside the body. Changing the body should have no effect on the soul.
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Old August 6th 07, 22:50   #133
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Re: B5:TLT - Show Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

Incidentally, I also think the ambiguity works fine.

If you follow the DNA explanation, the triluminary is attuned to Sinclair's DNA because the last use to which it was put was transforming him into a hybrid. It responds to Delenn because she is his descendant, and to other humans who are genetically close to him.

If you follow the souls explanation, it responds to Sinclair's soul because he is Valen, the greatest of Minbari souls. But souls are reincarnated from one generation to the next, and Lennier is careful to say in Points of Departure that Minbari souls are being reborn in whole or in part in human bodies. This suggests that Minbari do not view the relationship between souls and bodies as one-to-one, but instead think of them as able to be split or merged as they are reincarnated (much like DNA). In this scenario, the triluminary responds to Delenn because her soul contains a reincarnated fragment of Sinclair's (even though she may not literally be his descendent), and to other humans because they possess pieces of Minbari greater souls reincarnated.

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Old August 6th 07, 23:07   #134
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Re: B5:TLT - Show Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

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...I have stated it is a device that transforms DNA. If you believe in the existence of a soul, this by extension means it transforms his soul....
Why? What sources cause you to think that a soul is connected to the existence of DNA? I know of nothing in B5 or in general religious concepts that says the soul is attached to DNA. Where did you get this idea -- from your own independent thought?

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...To a religious person, the following equation applies:
  • living human dna = the presence of a human soul
Not necessarily, at all. I would say that people who believe that humans have souls do so because they believe humans have souls, not because they have DNA.

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...However to a religious person, the soul exists because of dna. A religious person believes that when you detect dna, you also detect a soul.
What religions present that idea? I have heard of no religions, nor of religious people or non-religious people say they believe a person has a soul because they have DNA, especially since the belief in souls vastly predates the knowledge of the existence of DNA.

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Old August 6th 07, 23:44   #135
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Re: B5:TLT - Show Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

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I personally don't believe people have a soul. However, there are others that do. To a religious person, the following equation applies:
  • living human dna = the presence of a human soul
Applying this to the B5 universe gets us:
  • living minbari dna = the presence of a minbari soul
  • changing your human dna to minbari dna = changing your human soul to a minbari soul
Does the triluminary detect dna? Yes. As you have pointed out, Atonement makes this clear. However to a religious person, the soul exists because of dna. A religious person believes that when you detect dna, you also detect a soul.
I see what you are getting at, but you have presented it in a convoluted, and actually unsupportable manner. If yiou want to say that humans have human DNA, and "religious" people, presumably Christians, believe humans have souls, thus they believe a being with human DNA has a soul, fine. But that isn't really what you said. A tissue culture has living human DNA, and I'm sure that not even the most hard-core "right-to-life" type would say it had a soul, unless maybe it was made from an embryo.

Further, I do wonder what any Christian, fundementalist or not, would say about a chimp-human hybrid, such as the Russians have reputedly made? Would they say it had a soul? Then, extrapolate that to a human-alien hybrid. I think most Christians today would call such things abominations, not humans with souls. But of course, if we ever make it into space, and meet other sentients, hopefully we will have evolved beyond that, at least socially. But, it would surprise me if we did. Well, maybe in centuries...
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Old August 7th 07, 02:38   #136
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Re: B5:TLT - Show Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

DNA is not a soul. It is body assembly instructions.
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Old August 7th 07, 07:57   #137
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Re: B5:TLT - Show Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

I made an error in phrasing with my dna analogy. What I really was getting at is: If you are a human being and if you are alive - you have a soul that is connected to your body.

Jade Jaguar actually worded my thoughts more coherently:

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If yiou want to say that humans have human DNA, and "religious" people, presumably Christians, believe humans have souls, thus they believe a being with human DNA has a soul, fine.
"a being with human DNA has a soul" more eloquently states were I was getting at.

As for the Triluminary, it clearly has features that are scientifically certifiable. However, this does not denounce its religious meaning to certain people.
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Old August 7th 07, 23:45   #138
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Re: B5:TLT - Show Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

Never again....Watched the 2 stories last night and was very disappointed. I was actually ashamed to let my wife see it after the all the hype. We both watch and love all five seasons, the made for tv movies and most of the books.
I will not spend $20.00 on future DVDs unless I get them in the dollar bin.
I am done with future B5 if this is all we get.
Please don't reply I will not answer.
Sorry.
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Old August 8th 07, 02:02   #139
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Re: B5:TLT - Show Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

Well, there's one end of the spectrum.
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Old August 8th 07, 02:21   #140
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Re: B5:TLT - Show Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

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Well, there's one end of the spectrum.
Well said!
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