whats a triluminary?

ok someone said there were 3 and they came from epsilon.
and they are the top of the crystilis.

now, did zathas give sinclair the crystialis thingy, and included the triluminary?

bc I don't rememeber there being 3, just one.

so theoretically, is the crystilis thingy that delenn used is the one that valian used brought from the past?

like a time loop. zathras gives to sinclair, sinclair becomes valien.

then its passed down to delenn.

also, why is sinclair valien but delenn doesn't change her name?

Ok, there are 3. Delenn used one to change herself into a hybrid, while the other 2 stayed on Minbar. Sinclair picked up all 3 on his way to the past. So, yeah they keep going in a time loop.

Sinclair changed his name, because he needed one that sounded Minbari. Because the past Minbari wouldn't accept a human.

Delenn didn't need to change her name, because she didn't need to.

Yes Zathras brought all the triluminaries from Epsilon 3,Sinclair had to change his name to Valen because he had already done so and Delenn didn't need to because humans and Minbari already knew and accepted each other....

I remember reading somewhere (but I don't remember where) a suggestion that the triluminaries were actually made using Sinclair's B5 link as its core.

As established in the show, the link was genetically coded to the DNA of its owner, which would certainly explain why the triluminary glowed when used on Delenn (ItB) to indicate her being a Child of Valen. It was basically responding to the remnants of Sinclair's DNA present in his descendents.

Could be a load of Horse Hockey - but it does make some kind of sens to me.

/forums/images/icons/grin.gif /forums/images/icons/wink.gif /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

I remember reading that too. But I suspect it was here, a long time ago, but at this very board. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

It does seem to make sense. But I forget the details (in terms of just when/how they were made). I'm sure it is just one more of those 'keep them guessing' things from JMS. /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

I heard that also a long time ago

question: does sinclair loose his link during one of those eps?
or i guess he could just give it to the guys from the planet lol

I remember reading somewhere that the Vorlons somehow supplied the triluminaries (to Epsilon 3), but I can't remember where I read that so it's of questionable veracity at best. Still, it makes some sense, given how the Vorlons seemed to have a special relationship with the Minbari moreso than any other race, and they certainly knew what was going on (Kosh's greeting in The Gathering re-cut solidifies that, to some extent).

Then again, I'm admittedly a Vorlon fanboy, so... /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif

The triluminaries (all three of them) originated on Epsilon 3 according to JMS. They are among the items that Zathras transfers from his ship to the White Star in "WWE". (One of the boxes is marked with the Minbari triangle symbol, but this is hard to see since none of the angles used in the final cut really highlight it. This box contains the Chrysalis device and - presumably - the triluminaries.)

After the Shadow War of the 1200s the triluminaries and the Chrysalis device are brought to Minbar. Delenn eventually takes the Chrysalis device with her to Babylon 5, and starts assembling it. During one of her visits to Minbar a member of the Grey Council gives her a triluminary to activate the machine. He assures her that it won't be missed because "there are two others."

While fans have speculated for years that the Vorlons are responsible for both the Great Machine and the triluminaries, JMS has never confirmed this, and no canonical source really goes into the origin of either.

Because the Grey Council member seems to grab whichever triluminary he can get his hands on ("there are two others") I doubt that they are either "one time use" devices, or that they are "keyed" to individuals. (Which many people seem to assume.) It is just as likely that Sinclair and Delenn used the same triluminary as that they used different ones. I don't think the fact that there are three of them is significant in the matter of Catherine Sakai, for instance.

The device clearly has multiple uses, since it is held up before new members of the Council, used to "scan" prisoners of war, and also powers (or controls) the Chrysalis device.

I think that the original notion in the back of JMS's head may have been that the triluminaries were based on parts taken from B4, or even from Sinclair's link. The rare close-ups of the thing show a metal triangle in the center of which a fairly crude-looking printed circuit affair is suspended by wires. But I think this idea was dropped as the story changed in the telling.

I suspect that this was going to be revealed as the reason that the triluminary glowed for Sinclair - that it was reacting to his DNA, having been built out of his link - by the Minbari. At the time JMS had said flat-out that Valen left had no off-spring.

I think the changes in the story created by Michael O'Hare's departure freed JMS to give Valen children, and make Delenn one of his descendants. In that case the Vorlons or Draal or somebody else could have created the triluminaries and incorporated Sinclair's DNA because they knew that would work for the two individuals who would eventually use the Chrysalis device, as well as providing an excuse for the Minbari surrender at the Battle of the Line.

Regards,

Joe

There's one thing about the scanning function of the device I've never understood before. When they hold it up to Sinclair, it glows, and that's supposed to indicate something special--in Sinclair's case, being a child of Valen. Would it have ever glowed for another reason? If not, why did they scan prisoners of war with it unless there was ever even the slightest assumption that it could glow for someone? Unless the device somehow provided more information than is obvious, then it just doesn't totally make sense why they thought there was any chance whatsoever that it would work on a non-Minbari.

Perhaps the glow simply means one thing: the device has activated itself. This person is biologically compatible to use the device.

I remember one of the minbari council saying they were going to interigate sinclair, and of course they used the triluminary...etc...then he broke off to the you gotta see this thing...

Perhaps the scanning thing is just done out of tradition. The Minbari are like that.

Unless they built it themselves (which they did not, given that Zathras brought it onboard the White Star) or disassembled it (which they hardly did) they may not know the principles of its behaviour, just that it sometimes does strange things. They might not know what the triluminary is actually meant for...

...unless they have read some instructions, which Valen doubtlessly left, but worded vaguely enough that only a suitable person in suitable time and circumstances (Delenn) would figure it out, at least guessing what its purpose was (otherwise she could have not transformed).

Is there a reason - maybe JMS mentioned it at some point - why we didn't see any more Triluminaries after Sinclair went back (except in flashbacks)? I guess there wasn't much of a use of them in what we saw of the plot ... might have been interesting to see the Rangers Council borrow one when questioning David Martel after the Emphili incident to see the "truth of his soul" or something, heh.

When Delenn had transformed, it was possible that all triluminaries were "spent" and no longer worked. After all, Valen brought along three of them. The first he had used to transform himself into a Minbari.

The second, based largely on speculation, was used by Catherine Sakai. This speculation may be inconclusive, but is supported by Sinclair's note to Marcus, as told in "To Dream in the City of Sorrows".

<font class="small">Spoiler:</font>
<table bgcolor="#000000" cellspacing="2" cellpadding="2" border="0"><tr bgcolor="#000000"><td bgcolor="#000000" id="spoiler"><font color="#000000">I've found her.</font></td></tr></table>
Now the third triluminary was used by Delenn. After that all three had been used. If they were meant for one-time use only, the supply of working triluminaries in current timeline was now zero.

This was probably why Zathras brought them from hell knows where, and gave them to Sinclair when they left. Doing this, Zathras also gave me a great idea for a fanfic story I'm writing. Thank you, Zathras. Much thankings.

My two credits worth. Everyone seems to have all the pieces to the puzzle, and here's another. Perhaps, the circuit piece in the middle is an amalgam of crystal technology from Minbar/Vorlons, and is keyed to Human DNA, not just Sinclairs. That would suppose that any of the humans would make it react, as well as certain Minbari that were descendants of Valen/Sinclair. That's my own piece of logic that would make all previous pieces fit together a bit neater. I think the Vorlons would have devised something a bit more elegant than those, so perhaps they only gave the pieces and function to it's architect and left them to it.
Who better to have access to human DNA than the Vorlons eh?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I think the Vorlons would have devised something a bit more elegant than those...

[/quote]Indeed. Or whoever made the triluminary simply knew that the Minbari would have to feel comfortable around it.
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Who better to have access to human DNA than the Vorlons eh?

[/quote] Shadows? If the universe has a sense of humor, that would not be impossible.

I was certain I heard it mentioned in one of the programmes that they came from the vorlons.

Time to go off on a little tangent? Why was delenn never seen to use one of her weird Rings that she used on g'kar in the gathering at any other part of the series?????

I thought they could have been incorporated at least a few times in the many story arcs!

I guess JMS deemed them walking the borderline to cheesy, and avoided them in the future. They would make a too comfortable plot device for too many occasions.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
The second, based largely on speculation, was used by Catherine Sakai. This speculation may be inconclusive, but is supported by Sinclair's note to Marcus, as told in "To Dream in the City of Sorrows".

<font class="small">Spoiler:</font>
<table bgcolor="#000000" cellspacing="2" cellpadding="2" border="0"><tr bgcolor="#000000"><td bgcolor="#000000" id="spoiler"><font color="#000000">
I've found her. </font></td></tr></table>


[/quote]

This quote is actually (IIRC) from the comic "In Valen's Name." The note he sent to Marcus at the end of TDitCoS is actually:

<font class="small">Spoiler:</font>
<table bgcolor="#000000" cellspacing="2" cellpadding="2" border="0"><tr bgcolor="#000000"><td bgcolor="#000000" id="spoiler"><font color="#000000">"From both of us, our thanks and friendship. Continue to dream that better future... where perhaps we'll meet again."</font></td></tr></table>


This does, however, seem to imply the same thing as you said though. (Although not as directly or as conclusively, given for the reasons stated by Marcus in the Epilogue)