JMS: The man and the legend

I wasn't bothered over the initial survey, but then again I don't know jms personally and have never met him (as some here may have). It was only after your uncomprehending "what did I say?" responses that I felt I should point out where you may have ruffled some feathers.

You point out that JMS is a creative type, some of which are bad people, ergo JMS could be a bad person. You then add that fans heap praise on JMS, but based on the fact he might be a bad, weak, or socially inept person (like Einstein), people should NOT revere him, if they even do.
Then you ask for comments.

That's like saying:

Colin Powell is a famous black man. But famous black men like Kobe Bryant and Jessie Jackson cheat on their wives. Now I have the greatest respect for Colin Powell's accomplishments, but he might just be an adulterer. What do you think?

1. He's just a love machine. Oooooh yeah.
2. His pimp hand is strong.
3. Black or not, he's a role model for all.
4. He's white like me.


If your statements were based on a person's age, race, sex, or religion (see above) they would be considered highly offensive discriminatory stereotypes, but of course over-achievers and celebs du jour are not protected groups.

I've read a lot of troll posts over the years, and this certainly has the feel of one. First the troll draws fire, then denies any ill intent, then condemns all who respond unfavorably while martyring him/herself in the public forum and basking in the odd attention it generates.

If that's what you're here for, I guess you it paid off. If not, maybe you can take it as a sign that your approach needs some work.

No, I haven't been picked to mod the forum, nor have I asked to mod the forum. I'm still over at b5.related. That honor will go to another unlucky bast -- oops, uh, happy poster.



But while there's no moderator, we still want to make sure that the board remains civil. So. My post.

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And you're doing such a good job, dear lady.

I wasn't bothered over the initial survey, but then again I don't know jms personally and have never met him (as some here may have). It was only after your uncomprehending "what did I say?" responses that I felt I should point out where you may have ruffled some feathers.

You point out that JMS is a creative type, some of which are bad people, ergo JMS could be a bad person.

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Ok. Calm and cool is now my middle name. There is a real pattern of quoting me....."You point out that JMS is a creative type"...this I said......

....and then totally scre........ distort the conclusion, to fit the "crime"........

...."some of which are bad people, ergo JMS could be a bad person.".....

...PLEASE.....feel free to SPECIFY and quote me where I designated anything or one as BAD........I talked of strengths and weaknesses.....I talked of hyper creative types as often having weaknesses in other areas SUCH AS social skills.......however I don't really recall associating BAD things to JMS......maybe you could more clearly call my description of Einstein's relation with his family and wives as an example of BAD ....something.... ...but I talked of patterns and I talked of extreme talent often being partenered with deficiencies in other areas........and I made NO CLAIMS WHATSOEVER about JMS.......and yet those stepping forward to point out my ill intent seem to have more evidence of connecting the things in their minds then there was in my post.

First the troll draws fire, then denies any ill intent, then condemns all who respond unfavorably while martyring him/herself in the public forum and basking in the odd attention it generates.

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"Draws fire" .........I made you show up and try to imply that I have been targeting JMS for ridicule????

"Denies any ill intent" .......eactly what would YOU RECOMMEND I do when someone skews a post of mine and then chastizes me for it??? Really, what IS the proper thing to do??......stand quiet and let you and others make me out to be a villian?? It would seem "sign #2" of a "troll" is pretty hard to avoid given the position OTHERS have put me in........


"Basking in the odd attention it generates" ....well, yes the attention is CERTAINLY odd.....and basking....well yeah.....it's just a total laugh riot for me.......I get to see people make factless accusations based on some preconceived notion rather then the posted reality.......I am just sooooooo excitied to to see that "fun fun" things are being attributed to me in this thread.....honest to GOD, if I had know there we so many folks just waiting around.....looking to create a controversy......I would rather the whole thread had not existed at all, but that's not the case and now I have a set of critics and their rogue descriptions of me sitting out there that demand a minimum of equal time to bring some semblance of accuracy and truth out of their commentary. I have not looked forward to viewings of this thread for quite some time now.

And you didn't like the "what did I say?" ....this is what brought you in particular forward? Not the supposed heinous act....but rather the profession of innocence?? is what has disturbed you??????.........and guess what..... had people had the maturity to let this line of discussion die somewhere back around Flounders post or even after Sindatur summed it up.......then maybe I would not have had the "privilage of basking" in the whatever of whatever.

Frankly I would encourage anyone who is in agreement with the last two or three of the critical posts to consider a possibility:

The possibility that you may have read the title of the thread and upon reading it immediately assigned to it a sense of something you had seen before as an assault upon someone like JMS and then when viewing the initial post, attributed to it the intent, direction, tone, and what-not that you were expecting based upon your initial reaction to the title and appearantly after having seen such titles and topics of discussion, expecting someone with an agenda....and a negative agenda at that I would gather.

With so little concrete evidence, that none has been laid out accurately to support your contention, perhaps you should consider listening to what I am trying to say and consider that your impression (however reached) was inaccurate. I have labeled no one ANYTHING. I have speculated about patterns and concepts and have not sought to warrent that any of them apply with ANY certainty to anyone (except perhaps Einstein as a drwn example and that was not speculation). I laid out points of consideration and potential factors as I am always inclined to do when considering a person, place, or thing.....to borrow from the school house rock song.

As an aside, has anyone considered that the sterotyping I am supposed to be practicing in my supposedly disparaging remarks about JMS, that those seeing it in that light are stereotyping ME based on their past experiences and patterns???

Irony be not kind to anyone....under these circumstances.


And might I suggest that those remaining unconvinced and still considering me....what was it....."a troll"....use simple common sense and let the matter drop....as that would be the surest way to make sure the "troll" can't "bask in the odd attention".

This way EVERYONE's best interest is served. I have been extensively smitted for my obvious-to-everyone attempt to harm JMS with my lone post......and I have had my say in my defense.....and now it might be dropped, leaving everyone concerned, as much a winner as there can be after what as already transpired............just a suggestion.

No, I haven't been picked to mod the forum, nor have I asked to mod the forum. I'm still over at b5.related. That honor will go to another unlucky bast -- oops, uh, happy poster.



But while there's no moderator, we still want to make sure that the board remains civil. So. My post.

Click to expand...

And you're doing such a good job, dear lady.

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Indeed.

And might I suggest that those remaining unconvinced and still considering me....what was it....."a troll"....use simple common sense and let the matter drop....as that would be the surest way to make sure the "troll" can't "bask in the odd attention".

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Odd as it is, I have a hard time considering you a troll since you've been on the board a while and seem on the level. Otherwise, I wouldn't have attempted to communicate with you. I did, however, point out how most trolls operate (as many online vets can attest). I'm still not sure what to make of all this, suffice it to say no one's making any headway so I guess we'll just return to speculating about TMOS.

Well, if all you were doing was presenting the concept of a troll and you were not accusing me of such than Isuppose the post could be counted as a positive thing even if you did mis attribute to my post that I was calling JMS "bad".

It does seem plausable that if you saw the resembelance between this "troll" model and what you have been observing here then that might serve to explain the unending nature of this particular discussion. I just can't quite wrap my mind around the igniting principle of all this yet.....and in that I am in semi-accord with you that I (one of those in the eye of the storm) "am not sure what to make of all this." It doesn't feel like anyone was vindicated and yet there does not seem to be anyplace for it to go.....just a mess best left .....something, I really don't know......I HATE that. .....

More about JMS, less about whether so-and-so is a troll or not.

Hint hint.

Alex, I'll take Great Scifi authors for $1000.00 please.

Who is.....William Shakespear???

Who's a troll?

"In Usenet usage, a troll is not a grumpy monster that lives beneath a bridge accosting passers-by, but rather a provocative posting to a newsgroup intended to produce a large volume of frivolous responses."
via trollfaq@altairiv.demon.co.uk

And now we know.....and knowing is half the battle........

or was that a rhetorical question????

LOL. he said "WHO's a troll", not "WHAT's a troll"

Look Mr Frodo: It's Mr Bilbo's trolls!

Mr. Bilbo's Trolls......

Zemageing, the very thread you state inspired you to start this thread had a section in it where the issue of "reading JMS's personal life from his online behavior" came up, and Jan in particular found that offensive and said so. You came here, created a very, very long post and included in one of your poll options something that appeared to reference the reads on JMS's personal life in the thread that inspired you. Jan connected the two, it seems to me, and told you what she told thew other poster. Then this thread went way off topic (in part because it didin't seem to HAVE a topic, or at least a thesis) and I declined to post in it until now, when the flames have died down a bit.

It really is just a miscommunication, it seems to me, and that possibility should always be seen as likelier than that someone who does not know you decided on a whim to attack you.

Ah, I don't really regard situations like these as "attack" situations per se, but rather a slightly personalized disagreement about something. I hold no personal feelings either way....save for the desire to not be misrepresented.


Beyond that concern, I have a strong interest in impartiality and welcome all opinions.....preferably based less on things found between the lines or speculative intent, but rather the subject posted or some more commonly acceptable flavor of the subject if neccessary to allow for discussion.


Bottom line, assumptions were made about the form or nature of the topic.....and it resulted in some .....concerned people whom expressed their concern.....and that led to my concerned responses.

I'm a tad sad the thread topic is most likely in ash after such passionate presentations of points of view........ but what's done is done. I don't believe I saw any attacks. I certainly don't think anything that occured, happened on a whim and I at least respect the sincerity of the various points of view. An unhappily personalized affair for a place to come and present ideas and opinions.


PS. "Very very long posts" are my Modus Operandi, and I would imagine most just skip them for that reason. Following my line of thought is a skill few aquire.....and more people are probably kept sane that way.........