Shadow War Question

I was watching Ship of Tears and Interludes and Examinations tonight, and I had this question...

When the Shadows first started attacking the League worlds openly, it was the Brakiri that they attacked first. Why was that? Why the Brakiri? I wondered if there was any significance to that or if it was random. Acocording to this starmap: B5 Star Map Brakiri space is nowhere near Z'Ha'dum? Why would they go all the over to the other side of known space to attack the Brakiri?

Anyone have any thoughts?

I'd have 2 things to say:

First, remember that the Shadow's original attack plan specifically centered around driving a group of refugees towards a central region, so they could be wiped out all at once. As such, they frequently jumped back-and-forth across the galaxy without hitting targets between their attack sites. Hitting the Brakiri first was probably just the initial step in this attack plan, so the distance from Za'Ha'Dum doesn't even figure into it.

The second thing I'd just like to point out is that I don't know how "accurate" that starmap is supposed to be. It may be officially sanctioned, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. For example, we know from (the episode escapes me at the moment, I will try to look it up later) a meeting between Morden and Londo that the Centauri Republic is located in a spiral arm. (The two "divide the galaxy" and the Centauri are "granted" an entire spiral arm, it seems silly if the Centauri Republic wasn't contained in that arm to begin with) However, the starmap you've linked to doesn't contain spiral-arms. As such, I wonder if its actually representative of the B5 galaxy as JMS imagined it, or if its just thrown-together for convience and RP purposes.

The star map seems to not take into acount that there is actually 3 dimensions, the space of a milimeter on the map might actually be a lot bigger due to the extra distance of ups and downs, the only way to fully map space would be for a 3D model.

And yes, the Shadow's stratergy would explain why the Brakiri, other than that, probably because they are one of the less military strong races in the League(in comparison to say, the Drazi.) so they were easier to kill...

Nick

Ah, good points! Thanks!

Hmm... I have a B5 Galaxy map which... well. Does not correspond that map entirely. It's a lot bigger and has a lot of more details. Well, all in all, it's much better. I think. But... Z'ha'dum is down there? Mmm.. Err.. Wasn't Z'ha'dum pretty near Narn regime's area? Or not close... But I mean... to me, that location of Z'ha'dum is pretty far fetched.

I've uploaded the B5 map which I used in my references. It's made by Shawn Weixelman. And in my opinion it is a lot better than... well.. that "original" one. The "New B5 Galaxy 2258" as it is called... Well, click here.

Oooh, that's cool!

the map is really good

Very pretty, but I do wonder about his sources. Has he sat down and worked from first principles (i.e. the episodes themselves) or did he just make it all up?

Also Z'ha'dum isn't on the map, not even as Alpha Omega 3.

I am not sure about the second map but the first map linked to in this thread is an official map and the creators (Mongoose) had access to alot of background material from WB/JMS as I understand it.

Their B5 source material is also reputed to be very accurate and thorough although I have not perused it personally.

One other fact with the Mongoose material is that everything they do has to be approved by Warner and by JMS himself, so it is reasonably safe to assume that it is pretty accurate

That's cool.

Very pretty, but I do wonder about his sources. Has he sat down and worked from first principles (i.e. the episodes themselves) or did he just make it all up?

Also Z'ha'dum isn't on the map, not even as Alpha Omega 3.

Click to expand...

Year 2258. EA didn't knew back then about Z'ha'dum. It lists only those territories that were known to EA at that time.

So the question is then, if he was to update the map later after people knew about the existance of Z'ha'dum, where would he put it?

the opposite end of the universe to the Vorlon Homeworld?

Well, I would put it farther from EA's territory. I know that there were those Battlecrabs on Mars and Ganymede.. but.. isn't that "official" location is just too damn near to Earth/SOL overall?

Yeah, and the EA was in the process of exploring the Rim. Z'ha'dum is on the Rim, and I would suppose that the Rim isn't near Earth space. If it was, then we live in a rather small galaxy.

Actually, we do live in a spiral arm of the galaxy, so, we're closer to the rim than the center. I would expect Za'Ha Dum to be on the very tip of a spiral arm, while Earth is neared the middle.

Indeed. If I'm not completely mistaken, the name of spiral arm in which we live is Orion. Wasn't it Orion's spiral arm officially or what. Hmm... Actually I shall take screenshot from ItB.

Here's the picture:


I put those red rectangles around that little orange "blip" on those screens. They flash constantly in that scene. I believe that either those blips show their current location OR the location of SOL (current location would be most likely). So anyway, Prometheus isn't that far from SOL when they encounter Minbari. Ah my point! Anyway, near the edge of spiral arm is their location. That's approx. location of our solar system in reality also.

Sounds good to me. And I think we can cheerfully ignore Morden's graphic in his conversation with Londo. In three different shots, the line is in three slightly different places. So let's stick with that galactic map.

Also Z'ha'dum isn't on the map, not even as Alpha Omega 3.

Click to expand...

I don't know where that version came from, but I have one saved that is very similar that shows Z'ha'dum. It's down in the lower left corner, pretty far away from everything else, which fits with it being near the Rim.