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Old May 15th 03, 02:31   #1
Mr. Morden
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SPOILER thoughts on Matrix Reloaded

I coulda done without the big dance party thing in Zion and after about 5 minutes of the "infinite-Smith" fight in the playground, it got almost cartoonish. Nonetheless, the Freeway scene was worth the price of admission. So here are some questions and thoughts I had.

In the second movie, Neo has accepted that he's the One, but yet he still fights (in the Matrix) using Kung-Fu, Guns, Swords and various other, very physical techniques. My question is, why? If he can simply "reach into" something inside the Matrix and "alter it's code" (like dispersing Agent Smith in the first movie and healing/ressurecting Trinity in Reloaded) can't he just "erase" or "alter" his adversaries?

Is this alteration technique what lead to the "liberated" Agent Smith who now copies himself?

I loved the way the Oracle explained the legends about ghosts and vampires as "Programs who are no longer doing their jobs." That was an awesome way of resolving the "mythical" ideas that are undoubtedly expressed by people who are still plugged into the Matrix. The freeway scene was everything I expected and more, but as a Christian I must say I was disappointed that the allegory has now broken down with the "architect" telling Neo that he is actually the 6th...no wait...he's the 7th ONE.....

Oh my gosh, I think I just figured that out...7 is the perfect number and so therefore, this ONE is actually gonna get it right. Whoa!

Anyway, the idea that the humans who "figure it out" and basically choose to be unplugged from the Matrix are accounted for in the architect's grand design as inherent anomalies in his integer-based equations was mind-blowing for me. It is, of course, true. It's a mathematical law that some equations will always, eventually, produce anomalous results no matter how perfect they appear.

So, with the help of the Oracle (a program designed to understand how humans think) the Architect of the Matrix (the program created to manage and build the Matrix) was able to institute the idea (or program if you will) of The One. The whole prophecy thing is just a sham. It's a way for the machines to group the humans together in Zion and then have them all in one place to eradicate them.

"We've done it 6 times before and we'll do it again."

Okay, enough rambling, what do you guys think?

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Old May 15th 03, 02:49   #2
tygirwulf
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Re: SPOILER thoughts on Matrix Reloaded

Well, to tell the truth, I will have to see the movie again before I can offer any real observations. It was a sold out crowd and I was forced to sit behind an extremely tall guy with a ridiculous afro. So I could see maybe only a quarter of the screen at any time. It also demonstrated to me how much of what I understand is dependent on lip-reading. *sigh* The Architect scene was really cool, though, what I understood of it. It blew me away.

I wonder what happened to the music in this movie. In the Matrix, it seems most of the songs were hard-hitting metal/rock/electronica/whatever. This one was...orchestrated? wtf? Some scenes had electronic music, but man, I just distracted by the music most of the time, just was not what I expected.

The ending. Worst. Ending. In a movie. Ever! I thought the place was gonna come down with all the "boos" and "This is bullshit!s" I don't care who you are and whether or not you got the second part of it coming in a few months, you do not just stop the movie and say "To Be Concluded."
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Old May 15th 03, 13:17   #3
B5_Obsessed
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Re: SPOILER thoughts on Matrix Reloaded

The movie is both as good and as bad as you've heard. Luckily, the good outweighs the bad after all is said and done.

I do think there is too much of a focus on longer Kung Fu fight sequences, although I must say that Keanu Reeves goes through those moves extremely well. The multi-Smith fight was long but entertaining as hell. It was supposed to be cartoonish.

I too could have done without the rave and the need to inject a tiny bit more sexuality into the film. The car chase was incredible.

I found the all-white control center for Zion, with it's holographic touch interfaces to be very out of place with the beat up industrial look of everything else in Zion and onboard the hover ships.

Don Davis has composed the score for all three Matrix films (with those trademark French horns), although he did play around with the style more on this one. I would say the first soundtrack was superior of the two we've heard so far. Both movies applied techno music to the major action sequences.

The ending was jarringly bad. It seemed like they slapped that TO BE CONTINUED right on in the middle of a scene, in essence chopping in half the 4-hour movie that is Matrix: Reloaded/Revolutions. This drew initial anger from the audience, but they did stick around to watch the teaser for film #3, so it was more like the anger of a child whose parent closes the storybook too early and says go to bed. They'll be back in 6 months, I'm sure.

The most puzzling thing in the whole film was where Neo, a powerless human in the real world, fried the Sentinels.

Is the "real" world real at all, or could it be another level? A Matrix within a Matrix?

Or has Neo somehow becoming the Superman he plays in the virtual world? I don't know, but I can't wait to find out.

I liked it. Overall, not as good as the first but well worth a try.
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Old May 16th 03, 00:21   #4
channe
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Re: SPOILER thoughts on Matrix Reloaded

Yup. I bet you anything it's a Matrix-within-a-Matrix. But why? And who controls it? Is the Architect just a creation of some larger power? Is the second Matrix just a safeguard for a larger creation, or a contigency program like the sham prophecy?

And what about Smith?

What does he have to do with all of this?

I know he's got SOMETHING to do with it -- my one problem is that he just kept on cropping up like an annoying bad penny with no purpose at all. In this movie, at least.

Honestly, I thought that I was watching a whole different series with the same characters... I don't know why.

But I liked it (nominally). The dialogue sucked. But I liked it. It deserved the three and a half stars that Ebert gave it.

And damn, it's great to be with an audience during that 100-Smith fight, wasn't it?
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Old May 16th 03, 10:58   #5
Mr. Morden
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Re: SPOILER thoughts on Matrix Reloaded

Here's my take on the situation with the Architect:

My understanding was that Neo could go to the door on his left and he would enter the Matrix. The Architect informed him that were he to do that, he could indeed destroy the Matrix BUT the machines would then kill everyone connected to the Matrix. THEN the machines would reach Zion and kill everyone there. BOOM! no more human race. He tells Neo that he would be responsible for the extinction of his race.

The OTHER door leads to the core. The machines would still destroy Zion, but they would allow Neo and 23 others (16 women and 7 men) to go "free" and start a new Zion - this is in order to corrall the 1% of humans who reject the Matrix and thus start the cycle over again.

Neo's predecessors all chose the door on the right - the one that leads to the creation of a new Zion, because their love for their fellow man made them not want to be responsible for the extinction of humans. HOWEVER, Neo is different in that his love for humankind is focused on one person, Trinity. He was shown the picture of her about to die (just as he had been dreaming for the whole movie) but decided he had hope to save her.

Now, Neo tries to get all fancy on the Architect's logic and tells him that the machines wouldn't allow all the humans to die because they need them for the energy source. But the Architect says that the machines are ready to accept certain "levels" of existence in order to make sure the humans don't win. I THINK that meant that the machines could exist, in a lesser capacity, without needing so much energy.

But, Neo chose to go back into the Matrix, because he loves Trinity more than all the other humans. But also probably because he thinks they still have a chance to win. His abilities demonstrated at the end of the film seem to give rise to hope as well.

Are Neo's abilities in the "the desert of the real" there because after his trip to the Core he is somehow connected to the machines? Or is it the Matrix-within-the Matrix theory and Neo has manifested his "Superman" powers "outside" the Matrix as well?

Now, I thought that I had it all figured out when I came to the realization that Neo was the 7th one--- 7 is the perfect number, see? But this idea that I 've seen about the "desert of the real" actually being another level of the Matrix is ruining all that. I guess I'll just have to wait until November.

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Old May 16th 03, 17:16   #6
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Re: SPOILER thoughts on Matrix Reloaded

I absolutely loved this movie, but you raise something that I kept thinking about all the way through the film... If Neo isn't bound by the "laws" of the matrix -- and obviously he isn't or he wouldn't be able to do his "Superman" stunts -- then why the heck is he engaging in hand-to-hand combat in the first place? Couldn't he just snap his fingers and destroy whatever agents come his way? For that matter, why does he even need to fly? Couldn't he just "transport" anywhere he wanted to inside the matrix?

It almost seemed to me that Neo was more powerful at the end of The Matrix than he was all through Reloaded, except at the end when he realized that he could control the machines in the "real world."
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Old May 17th 03, 00:33   #7
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Re: SPOILER thoughts on Matrix Reloaded

Just got done seeing it. Here are a few of my review points:

1) The dialogue with the French speaking guy got really old and really quick. I remember sitting there listening to him and going "does this have a point?" It just sounded like a lot of babble. I know it was supposed to be some deep thoughts and all, but it wasnt done so well.

2) I too thought the white zion docking center looked REALLY out of place. Funny that.

3) Dreadlock dudes own.

4) Car Chase scene was AMAZING. And, you could tell Cadilliac had a hand in sponsoring the movie.

5) At first I was REALLY confused by the architech scene, and thought it was very much like the above scene with the French guy --- lots of dialogue and rambling that wasnt done in a great way. I still dont think the scene was believable, but after leaving the theater and letting it sink in, a lot of it made sense. To me that just says the delivery of it could have been better thats all.

6) I completely agree with the above posts about how the Matrix works. That this guy has an anomoly who is "The One" lead everyone to believe they can free themselves, but its really just part of a plan to corrall the 1% that are able to escape the Matrix. Cool concept --- after it sank in.

7) I was REALLY wondering how he was able to control those Machines in the real world. I too thought of 2 possibilities. The first being that after being in the core, he is connected to them somehow. It makes sense saying that something is now different, and he can FEEL them. The second that occured to me is the matrix-within-a-matrix theory. I REALLY hope its not the second one. I also dont think it is. It would just be too corny and tough to sell to an audience. To me its like that whole season of "Dallas" that turned out to be a dream. So I think its the first possibility.

8) The Ending. OK. Was I the only person that not only didnt mind HOW it ended suddenly, but who fully expected it? I mean, you know in 6 months part III is coming out. It HAS to end in a cliffhanger. One revelation was made --- that the prophecy was a sham. Neo was also shown to defeat machines in the real world. And now you see the guy who Mr Smith "took over" in the real world as being the one who sabotoged the defense of Zion. I thought it was a fine place to end it, and it seemed logical. I dont get why everyone in the theater and some here made a big deal of it. Hrumph.

In closing, I thought it was really good. Ill need to see it again to let some of it sink in deeper.

Lastly, why is 7 the perfect number? Ive heard the expression, but is there some significance to it? I know its a LUCKY number, but why the "perfect" number?
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Old May 17th 03, 13:01   #8
haze
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Re: SPOILER thoughts on Matrix Reloaded

I'm not going to be surprised if it turns out that Neo is just another "Program" like the Oracle. Could be that the entire world is just a Matrix where each person is a program and through these programs the Matrix is trying to "understand" itself by recreating a world of Man vs. Machine. I might be way off, but there was just something about the Architect scene that made me feel as if the machine was talking to itself and there was that constant overlal theme that there were no choices, that everything was predetermined. How could it be so unless all of reality was contained in a logical system?

It was also explain how Agent Smith was able to crossover into a "human" body. If everything is a Matrix or more than one Matrix, this would make sense.

Just my shaky theory. :P

-Haze
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Old May 17th 03, 13:56   #9
Malakian82
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Re: SPOILER thoughts on Matrix Reloaded

What I don't get is this: The architect offers Neo two choices:
A. Choose the door on the left, destroy the matrix - but, we'll kill all mankind.
B. Choose the door on the right, go back into the matrix, and you can choose 23 people to repopulate Zion.

But.... Why even offer Neo the option of destroying the matrix?? And when is Neo supposed to choose the 23? He didn't do it then and there, so when?

And one last thing, if the grand scheme was for Neo to reach the architect, then they did a hell of a job to prevent this. With all the agents and sentinals trying to kill him in this movie and the first, he's lucky to be still alive. It seems inplausible that Neo reached the core 6 time before, when each time he is giving such a hard time. Anyone any thought on this?
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Old May 17th 03, 18:24   #10
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Re: SPOILER thoughts on Matrix Reloaded

I just saw the movie today, & I am glad I read all your comments because the film left me a bit confused! I think the dialogue is the problem. Those long speeches can leave you saying, "huh?".

Great movie, though. When I saw those amazing fight sequences, it was just like when I saw Star Wars for the first time back in the '70s all over again. It's the excitement of seeing something you've never really seen before.

Tammy
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