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Old May 19th 09, 20:12   #91
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Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

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Originally Posted by vacantlook View Post
I went by the Wikipedia page for the film to check what it says:

In order for it to destroy Romulus, if it wasn't Romulus's sun, it would have to be a star close enough that I still think that turning it into a black hole would still cause some disastrous effect on Romulus.
What about the black hole that was created inside our solar system at the end of the film?
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Old May 19th 09, 23:22   #92
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Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

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What about the black hole that was created inside our solar system at the end of the film?
Yeah, I don't know. While the use of black holes in the film seems to have been used to try to give a semi-real science method for time travel, they seem less impressive than I imagine a real black hole to be. Ultimately, I'd say the science of the film is all contrived for plot development, not much for representing science as close as possible. The black holes as depicted didn't seem any bigger than the Romulan mining ship, so I guess maybe they're supposed to be classified as micro-black holes or something. But in terms of how that was supposed to stop the star stuff expelled from the supernova that enabled Spock and Nero to travel back in time, I don't know. The black hole would have to have enough gravitational force to pull the star stuff back inward, which I would still think would be enough gravity to affect Romulus in some way.

As for the black hole created at the end of the film near Earth, the ejection of the Enterprise's warp core parts seemed to ignite something and made the black hole look all bright and burning like a star. I wonder how far from Earth that final battle was. Spock had warped away in the future ship and Nero had followed him and the Enterprise had followed them, so they weren't too near Earth when it happened, but I don't remember if they were depicted as even still being in Earth's solar system for that part of the battle.

But as it has been said, the whole claim of a single supernova threatening the entire galaxy is really, really pushing it. The whole supernova, red matter, black hole bit to the story could really have used a bit more fine tuning. Science elements aside, I liked that the story was built off of the Next Generation story of Spock being an ambassador to Romulus. I like the Vulcan/Romulan relationship and think it's a very fertile ground for storytelling, so it was fun to see that in this film.
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Old May 20th 09, 00:41   #93
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Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

I just went and saw Star Trek the new film again in a IMAX theater, WOW WAY AWESOME! I wanted to observe the claims that Abrams was trying to turn Star Trek into Star Wars. I was actually surprised to find that when I looked at the movie from that stand point, I did notice a phenominal number of parrellels. Most of them VERY COOL though, save for a select few.

The only STAR WARSY negative things being:
1.) The ship phasers sound too different for my taste. - I found myself missing the classic sound. At least they nailed the photon fire sound.
2.) Klingon Photon Fire - In the Kobayashi Maru test, what was up with the Klingon photon fire sound? They sounded rather piddley. Made Klingon D-7s seem rather wussy.
3.) NO HAND PHASERS!!! - The hand guns that have duel uses, which I priorly thought was a laser gun and a phaser isn't.
Actually one is a laser gun and in the other mode it's like some kind of plasma burst of blue energy.
>This one thing kinda got under my skin, (seeing it a second time) it did bug me a little. You gotta have phasers man... Star Trek ain't Star Trek without phasers dude, it's Star Wars. COME ON ABRAMS THROW US A BONE HERE FOR THE LOVE OF THE STAR TREK FANS SAKE. I can understand the time line tech explanation but come on dude don't take the phasers away! I'll still hang on to the hope he'll bring back our beloved phasers. May be having been raised on Star Wars he thought we were geeky. May be he thought phasers were geeky, opting for Star Wars type laser fire and many of the Star Trek sounds. Thus he tweeked it too somewhat clone Star Wars, who knows. But having no phaser is pushing it a little close to the proverbial line.
4.) Warp Monitor Darkness - I noticed that prior to coming out of warp the monitor screen was black, then boom they popped out of warp, (hyperspace any one), like Star Wars. Why can't we see the stars moving on the monitor screen in warp? Was the monitor off?

Now don't get me wrong I love the movie and it totally kicks butt. However, I hope they adjust these things in the spin off TV show if we ever get one.
PEACE OUT.
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Old May 20th 09, 05:54   #94
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Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

Could there be some mixing or confusion between a black hole and a supermassive black hole? Black holes can be any of a large range of sizes, from the extremely tiny (molecular sized?) minis that may be created by CERN to regular-star-collapsing black holes that we first knew about, to supermassives (that we now speculate are at the center of every spiral galaxy).

Minis don't do much: they are not massive enough to exist for more than a small fraction of a second (and are harmless despite the nutty story some high school professor keeps spreading). I don't know how or if they are linked to cosmic rays, but the scientists who study them are aware that we are bombarded by these quite frequently, with no harm done. But anyhow, minis mean nothing gets sucked in, it's not massive enough and not around long enough.

Black holes and supermassive black holes have event horizons: borders where inside you are pulled in and outside you can hang about and watch the thing safely (though there wont' be much to see, it being a black hole and all of that ). How long it takes to define such a precise border I have no idea, but not everything gets sucked in. For some reason, they do seem to stop pulling thing in if those things are far enough.

Not having any info about what was said in the film, really, and knowing nothing really about this science other than bits and pieces, all I can say is it would depend on the proximity to the black hole and the size of the black hole as to just what happened.

Using one for time travel I thought was a theoretical possibility if you want to send through time something around the size of a particle. Whether it would remain intact through the journey, who knows? And woldn't relativity kind of make the trip take infinite time by our perspective?

Fun side note: there is evidence that our galaxy's central supermassive black hole has recently become active again, after being dormant (equalized, stabalized, whatever it's called when it's met its equilibrium). Might be a good thing that we are out at the edge of this spiral here.
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Old May 20th 09, 06:22   #95
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Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

Fascinating Hypatia I love anything about space, very intriguing.

Did you know they even are theorizing about several locations around the globe where scientist think there may be a mini black hole in the core of our planet. The other theory is a worm hole which I believe is more plausible. It's mouth is deep down in the Burmuda Triangle where strange things happen, planes, ships, people disappear. Time doesn't work right there and compasses go crazy.
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Old May 20th 09, 07:00   #96
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Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

I thought there were more mundane explanations for such phenomena. But I don't know much about the Triangle, or other areas that have an unusual occurance of mysterious accidents and weird malfunctions.
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Old May 20th 09, 15:44   #97
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Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

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Did you know they even are theorizing about several locations around the globe where scientist think there may be a mini black hole in the core of our planet. The other theory is a worm hole which I believe is more plausible. It's mouth is deep down in the Burmuda Triangle where starnge things happen, planes, ships, people disappear. Time doesn't work right there and compasses go crazy.
I sincerely doubt they are proper scientists.
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Old May 20th 09, 19:01   #98
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Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

I think the event that first led people to become superstitious about the "Bermuda Triangle" was recently debunked. It started with the loss of five US bombers which I think I read were discovered a few years ago.
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Old May 20th 09, 19:14   #99
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Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

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Originally Posted by vacantlook View Post
In order for it to destroy Romulus, if it wasn't Romulus's sun, it would have to be a star close enough that I still think that turning it into a black hole would still cause some disastrous effect on Romulus.
Not really. The star could have been thirty light years away, right? Some systems orbit a dual star / black hole system, don't they? Wouldn't Earth be fine if the Alpha Centauri sun turned into a black hole?


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The Star thw went Supernova is named - Hobus.
All that is known about the Romulan star system is this:
Which would lean towards the idea that the star that went supernova was not the star that Romulus orbits.
Yah, if it was the Romulan star, they just would have said "The Romulan star", they wouldn't say "a star"

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Originally Posted by vacantlook View Post
Yeah, I don't know. While the use of black holes in the film seems to have been used to try to give a semi-real science method for time travel, they seem less impressive than I imagine a real black hole to be. Ultimately, I'd say the science of the film is all contrived for plot development...But as it has been said, the whole claim of a single supernova threatening the entire galaxy is really, really pushing it.
I'm not sure you people have quite got the idea of Star Trek yet ;-). A zap-o-ray that terraforms a dead planet and engages in the creation of life from a planet of dead matter, a spacial anomoly that grows in size backwards in time until it consumes half the galaxy and kills the primordial ooze we evolve from (last episode TNG), a magical temporal nexus that sucks you in, fulfils your greatest fantaies, and drops you anywhere in space-time you'd like to go when you're sick of paradise, life that's evolved to god-like beings (the Q) so beyond science they don't even attempt to explain how they evolved in a scientific universe...

Even excluding the silly genericness of star trek science, it makes perfect sense to me that new scientific things can be discovered. Only in the last century we've discovered black holes, and most of the details of science we know of are only a few centuries old. You think in a couple more centuries someone couldn't discover a superduper-star that threatens the whole galaxy? By then we could discover that stars are actually splotches of spilt milk on a galactic tablecloth that only looked like stars. That's the point of sci-fi, to make big and interesting theories about the future founded on science and nothing more. To boldy go where no [cliche auto-trunc]... You can definitely criticize Star Trek in general if it's too lame and not scientific, but everything in this movie was 100% in line with the pseudoscience we've come to know in ST.

Plot: The Romulan star threatens to go supernova slightly early and the fate of the universe depends on evacuating the planet within a few decades of the deadline. Spock, coordinating the evacuation of a small group of VIPs, is five minutes late due to a computer error, and the wrath of Nero who had to spend five more minutes than he wanted to socializing with his annoying brat nephew in the beam up lobby decides to destroy planet Vulcan in cold vengeance... =)

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Originally Posted by hypatia View Post
Could there be some mixing or confusion between a black hole and a supermassive black hole?
Has anyone read the Artifact? It's about this little mini black hole in a block of metal like the transfomers cube some archeologists discover. It's a decent book.

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I sincerely doubt they are proper scientists.
Either that or the brilliant ones that get nobel prizes when the Earth is threatened by a mini black hole tupperwear party... it's always the flip of a coin! That's what I call "crenius" (crazy-genius) because I refuse to disguinish between stupid theories and brilliant theories.
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Old May 20th 09, 19:29   #100
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Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

Did anyone else Chris Pine looked like a sissy with his legs crossed at the end?
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