B5TV.COM. Babylon 5 forums Babylon 5 message for the fans from Claudia Christian Babylon 5
Old June 5th 09, 20:20   #141
Markas
His Majesty
 
Markas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 18,407
Send a message via MSN to Markas
Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

I finally saw it last night. As a rampant Original Trek devotee, I was a bit reticent to have to deal with the stuff I had read about the reboot. I'm not one of those completely loony TOS super-fans but I started watching the first season of the series with my oldest brother during the first run, when I was 4. Having seen every TOS ep at leasta 50 times, I had to brace myself for the changes.

That said, I really liked it. I didn't love it, but I liked a lot of the character interactions and some of the plot. I agree with much of what has been said in this thread about the weak nature of the red matter and time travel. And what was up with that crazy Romulan mining ship, and the tattoos, and why were the Roms all bald? And how did the Romulans capture "the most advanced ship" that Spock was piloting. I would assume he could at least outrun a MINING ship. And why did Spock's ship have to rotate like a EA Omega-class cruiser?

And why did he need 100 gallons of red matter when a drop created a black hole? And how did he allow such a weapon get into the hands of a crazy Romulan? Ultimately, Spock Prime was responsible for the death of reboot Vulcan.

Yeah, nitpicking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by squish View Post
Did anyone else Chris Pine looked like a sissy with his legs crossed at the end?
Shatner did that on the bridge a couple of times. I think it was a small homage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GKarsEye View Post
Ok lemme ask a "serious" (not really) uber-geek question:

Those of you truly love Trek, how much do you feel a little annoyed that Trek used to be "our thing" and now it's all mainstream. Now you got celebrities and attractive people taking their attractive dates to see our formerly clubby little niche, nerdy escapist thing. Isn't it kind of annoying? Star Trek used to be this thing that a woman would make fun of me for (like that scene in Free Enterprise when the red-headed skank is railing on the dude in bed for being into it "and what's up with Spock and those ears?!" and so forth) and now they want to come with me and see it? No, I'll take you to some boring-ass chick flick, I'm going to see Star Trek with my equally nerdy loser software engineer friends, thank you very much!
I guess I am a little annoyed with the idea that the people and the universe that we fell in love with wasn't enough, and the whole thing needed to be re-imagined. I would have been happier with a prequel that showed how the original crew actually got togeher and what was their first tough mission.

A few personal observations:

* I thought Chris Hemsworth as George Kirk was excellent casting. He looked enough like Pine and had enough of a similar Kirk bravado to be believable. On another note about Hemsworth, he has been cast to play Thor in the Marvel film of the same name. Could be insteresting.
* Pine grew on me. By the last 1/3 of the film, I felt the Kirkness coming out of him. I did not enjoy the scenes where he was standing right next to Quinto because he is too tall. I always expect Kirk to look up at Spock, not vice versa.
* Quinto was, I thought, excellent casting from especially the visual perspective. He has so much in common with Nimoy's appearance to rope me in quickly.
* Saldana and Cho were fine.
* Pegg was funny but a bit TOO much at times.
* Urban was a bit bulky for McCoy, but I think he got so much of the essence of our dear doctor, if not his Southern charm.
* Yelchin annoyed me mostly.
* Ben Cross as Sarek was okay casting, but I would have loved to have seen someone with more charisma in the role. He was a bit to dessicated for my taste.
* Greenwood as Pike was excellent. He carried off the mentor role very well.
* Why was a Constellation-class ship being built on the surface of Earth? How will they get it in orbit?
* Why did that Romulan crew wait quietly with their commander for 25 years? Remember Decius from "Balance of Terror"? Wasn't there someone on that ship that said "let's go to Romulus and warn them that in 139 years XXX is going to go super-nova and destroy the world"?

And finally, the Spock/Uhura canoodling was intensely disturbing.
__________________
"As far as bright ideas go, this is right up there with having my gums extracted." - Michael Garibaldi
Markas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 6th 09, 00:29   #142
Galahad
First One
 
Galahad's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Alcester, Warwickshire, UK
Posts: 3,783
Send a message via MSN to Galahad Send a message via Yahoo to Galahad Send a message via Skype™ to Galahad
Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markas View Post
* Why was a Constellation-class ship being built on the surface of Earth? How will they get it in orbit?
[cough] Constitution [/cough]

Quote:
And finally, the Spock/Uhura canoodling was intensely disturbing.
Hmmm on the basis that I definitely wouldn't feel it was disturbing if I were Spock... I cannae agree!
__________________
We live for The One, we die for The One

"We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."

Visit NiCK'S SANCTUARY
Galahad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 6th 09, 05:56   #143
hypatia
First One
 
hypatia's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 28,855
Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

For the One: Is it just my computer, or are you putting your smilies on top of your letter somehow? I don't think they are for anyone else. Perhaps my computer is doing something strange?
__________________
"If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal."
-- Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot

Last edited by hypatia; June 6th 09 at 05:58.
hypatia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 6th 09, 15:32   #144
B5_Obsessed
First One
 
B5_Obsessed's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Orlando, FL USA
Posts: 1,942
Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

Quote:

But that aside, if they use basic elements from his book, I.E.- The Borg tech brings Kirk back to life. Turning him into a Borg to be a rep to assimulate Earth, (Picard Lucutis anyone," Best of Both Worlds I & II"). That could be interesting. But I think why bother, just go back using a Borg time travel sphere a few minutes and beam him aboard. I think the book cover said they used the tech to do it. Anybody out there actually wade through the book?
The book was excellent. Better than First Contact.
B5_Obsessed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 6th 09, 17:51   #145
Markas
His Majesty
 
Markas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 18,407
Send a message via MSN to Markas
Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad View Post
[cough] Constitution [/cough]
It is almost as disturbing to me as Spock and Uhura canoodling that I said Constellation instead of Constitution.



Quote:
Hmmm on the basis that I definitely wouldn't feel it was disturbing if I were Spock... I cannae agree!
Yes, she's nice and sexy. Even *I* would canoodle with her. But it was so jarring that it distracted me for some time. It disturbed me more than Vulcan disappearing. It was the one thing that seemed entirely unbelievable, and I had decided to suspend disbelief before going in.
__________________
"As far as bright ideas go, this is right up there with having my gums extracted." - Michael Garibaldi
Markas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 6th 09, 20:48   #146
B5_Obsessed
First One
 
B5_Obsessed's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Orlando, FL USA
Posts: 1,942
Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markas View Post
Yes, she's nice and sexy. Even *I* would canoodle with her. But it was so jarring that it distracted me for some time. It disturbed me more than Vulcan disappearing. It was the one thing that seemed entirely unbelievable, and I had decided to suspend disbelief before going in.
But this movie establishes that Spock and Uhura have a history together, enough of a history for Spock to worry about the appearance of impropriety if he placed her on the Enterprise. Although we don't know what the nature of their previous association was, they have gotten to know each other well, and when Vulcan is destroyed and Spock's mother is killed, Uhura's heart goes out to him and in his time of emotional instability, he responds.

I didn't find it unbelievable under the circumstances. The question is whether it will continue in the future after he has regained his composure. Will he seek to embrace logic? Or with his culture in ruins, will he choose a different path?
B5_Obsessed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 6th 09, 20:49   #147
for the one
Ambassador
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Pacific Northwest
Posts: 296
Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hypatia View Post
For the One: Is it just my computer, or are you putting your smilies on top of your letter somehow? I don't think they are for anyone else. Perhaps my computer is doing something strange?
I think it's your computer... Checked my posts the spacing looks fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B5_Obsessed View Post
The book was excellent. Better than First Contact.
Okay cool now I'll have to actually go read it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B5_Obsessed View Post
But this movie establishes that Spock and Uhura have a history together, enough of a history for Spock to worry about the appearance of impropriety if he placed her on the Enterprise. Although we don't know what the nature of their previous association was, they have gotten to know each other well, and when Vulcan is destroyed and Spock's mother is killed, Uhura's heart goes out to him and in his time of emotional instability, he responds.

I didn't find it unbelievable under the circumstances. The question is whether it will continue in the future after he has regained his composure. Will he seek to embrace logic? Or with his culture in ruins, will he choose a different path?
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markas View Post
I finally saw it last night. As a rampant Original Trek devotee, I was a bit reticent to have to deal with the stuff I had read about the reboot. I'm not one of those completely loony TOS super-fans but I started watching the first season of the series with my oldest brother during the first run, when I was 4. Having seen every TOS ep at leasta 50 times, I had to brace myself for the changes.

That said, I really liked it. I didn't love it, but I liked a lot of the character interactions and some of the plot. I agree with much of what has been said in this thread about the weak nature of the red matter and time travel. And what was up with that crazy Romulan mining ship, and the tattoos, and why were the Roms all bald? And how did the Romulans capture "the most advanced ship" that Spock was piloting. I would assume he could at least outrun a MINING ship. And why did Spock's ship have to rotate like a EA Omega-class cruiser?
1.) Okay, the tattoos and bald heads- were odd. But what I really found interesting is look at their foreheads. There is no ridge at all (not a klingon ridge) a Romulan raised forhead. Their heads look like the classic serious (human like). So now that raises a interesting piont. Did they reexperiment with genetic manipulation? Is that why they were miners? Were they some kind of abandon project, left to rott like the character from Star Trek ''Nemesis?
2.) As for the mining ship able to catch Spocks,- it was from the same era as the mining vessel. So one could speculate had simular tech. Spock not being able to out run it may have just been bad luck. He did appear right infront of their tractor beams.
3.) The rotating ship simular to a B-5 Omega class- Look at the remastered classic Star Trek. There is a Orion Vessel that attacks a space station where a peace conferance is being held, that has that same rotating effect. Which is why I assumed in the movie it must be a futurist Orion ship Spock bought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markas View Post
And why did he need 100 gallons of red matter when a drop created a black hole? And how did he allow such a weapon get into the hands of a crazy Romulan? Ultimately, Spock Prime was responsible for the death of reboot Vulcan.

Yeah, nitpicking.
Extreemly good points, that much red matter was not needed. It was ultra excessive.
Spock was a tad careless. But he admitted that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markas View Post
Shatner did that on the bridge a couple of times. I think it was a small homage.
Interesting, cool. But I agree it does look a bit odd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markas View Post
I guess I am a little annoyed with the idea that the people and the universe that we fell in love with wasn't enough, and the whole thing needed to be re-imagined. I would have been happier with a prequel that showed how the original crew actually got togeher and what was their first tough mission.
Well met, but like you I agree it still was a good movie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markas View Post
A few personal observations:

* I thought Chris Hemsworth as George Kirk was excellent casting. He looked enough like Pine and had enough of a similar Kirk bravado to be believable. On another note about Hemsworth, he has been cast to play Thor in the Marvel film of the same name. Could be insteresting.
* Pine grew on me. By the last 1/3 of the film, I felt the Kirkness coming out of him. I did not enjoy the scenes where he was standing right next to Quinto because he is too tall. I always expect Kirk to look up at Spock, not vice versa.
* Quinto was, I thought, excellent casting from especially the visual perspective. He has so much in common with Nimoy's appearance to rope me in quickly.
* Saldana and Cho were fine.
* Pegg was funny but a bit TOO much at times.
* Urban was a bit bulky for McCoy, but I think he got so much of the essence of our dear doctor, if not his Southern charm.
* Yelchin annoyed me mostly.
* Ben Cross as Sarek was okay casting, but I would have loved to have seen someone with more charisma in the role. He was a bit to dessicated for my taste.
* Greenwood as Pike was excellent. He carried off the mentor role very well.
* Why was a Constellation-class ship being built on the surface of Earth? How will they get it in orbit?
* Why did that Romulan crew wait quietly with their commander for 25 years? Remember Decius from "Balance of Terror"? Wasn't there someone on that ship that said "let's go to Romulus and warn them that in 139 years XXX is going to go super-nova and destroy the world"?

And finally, the Spock/Uhura canoodling was intensely disturbing.
1.) The 'Constitution' Class vessel built on Earth-, I figured (as I mentioned earlier on this thread), was probably because of the Sulliban & Xindi Wars, also the 'Temporal Cold War', etc. With all the attacks on Earth and their ship, (remember Klingons attacked Enterprise right out of port of the shipping yards), they probably wanted to keep it a secret.
>>SPOILER ALERT<<
2.) Romulans waiting 25 years when they could have just warned Romulus then attacked Spock-Thus preventing the loss of all their race.- A exreemly good point. Maybe his hatred skewed his logic, kind of like a angry bull charging a matidor with a spear, or perhaps his skewed honor. Go back and watch 'Ballance of Terror' again... Watch how the brilliant tactical genius Romulan, is swayed towards a unlogical decision that gets them all killed. He listened to his lessers plea for the honor of Romulus and not to return in disgrace. So like the bull he attacks the matidor (Spocks ship) and of coarse it is his ending; as the Enterprise whips out his whole arsenal of proton torpedoes which he fires at Spocks ship.
3.) Spock/Uhura- Actually if everyone will recall Nurse Chapel had a thing for Spock. She was madly in love with him, that was kind of an on going theme in a couple episodes. So women being drawn to him is nothing new or alien to classic Star Trek. I think Darth Librarian mentioned this if I recall.
__________________
"You have always been here."- Kosh

CCC CCC CCC
CCCCC CCCCC C
CCC C CCC C C
C C C c
C CCC C
C C

CCCCCCCCC cccccccc
CCCCCCCCC cc
CCCCCCC CC

ccccc
ccccc
cccccccc
cccccccc
(My version of a 8 bit Atari 2600 Terminator)

Last edited by for the one; June 6th 09 at 22:14. Reason: Added qoutes.
for the one is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 7th 09, 15:34   #148
B5_Obsessed
First One
 
B5_Obsessed's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Orlando, FL USA
Posts: 1,942
Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by for the one View Post

1.) Okay, the tattoos and bald heads- were odd. But what I really found interesting is look at their foreheads. There is no ridge at all.
There never should have been ridges in the first place. Vulcan and Romulans were the same species only a thousand years earlier. Good riddance. Nero and his crew shaved their heads and adorned themselves with war tattoos after the destruction of Romulus.

Quote:
2.) As for the mining ship able to catch Spocks,- it was from the same era as the mining vessel. So one could speculate had similar tech. Spock not being able to out run it may have just been bad luck. He did appear right infront of their tractor beams.
Nero's ship, the Narada, did not originally look as it does in the film. It was enhanced with Borg technology raided from a Romulan research base (shades of EA advanced destryoers anyone?) after Nero went on the warpath.

Quote:
1.) The 'Constitution' Class vessel built on Earth-, I figured (as I mentioned earlier on this thread), was probably because of the Sulliban & Xindi Wars, also the 'Temporal Cold War', etc.
The Enterprise was built in Riverside, Iowa to commemorate the brave sacrifice of George Samuel Kirk. It was also built 13 years later in this reality. The depiction of the ship being built on the ground was the choice of the filmmakers. They figured it was easier and safer to build on the ground and anti-grav units could boost it to orbit with no problem.

Quote:
2.) [U][B]Romulans waiting 25 years when they could have just warned Romulus.
25 years is a long time to not re-evaluate your position. The following was edited out of the film: After being rammed by the Kelvin, the Narada was vulnerable and was captured by the Klingons. Nero and his crew were sentenced to life at the penal asteroid, Rura Penthe, where they spent most of the next 25 years and Nero loses part of his ear. Finally, Nero and crew plan and execute their escape and Nero utters the phrase "The wait is over" as seen in the trailers. They manage to re-acquire the ship (which has inexplicably not been stripped apart) and destroy 47 Klingon ships on their way out of Klingon space (which is referenced in the film). As for warning Romulus, I think Nero's feeling may have been that this alternate reality had nothing to do with his life that was destroyed.
B5_Obsessed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 7th 09, 19:30   #149
Markas
His Majesty
 
Markas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 18,407
Send a message via MSN to Markas
Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by B5_Obsessed View Post
But this movie establishes that Spock and Uhura have a history together, enough of a history for Spock to worry about the appearance of impropriety if he placed her on the Enterprise. Although we don't know what the nature of their previous association was, they have gotten to know each other well, and when Vulcan is destroyed and Spock's mother is killed, Uhura's heart goes out to him and in his time of emotional instability, he responds.

I didn't find it unbelievable under the circumstances. The question is whether it will continue in the future after he has regained his composure. Will he seek to embrace logic? Or with his culture in ruins, will he choose a different path?
I am not talking about "in context with the current plot", I mean that in the 43 years that we have known Spock, this is something that never would have happened outside of pon farr, and never in front of a crewmate. That Spock would consider having an affair with any member of the crew, especially a cadet under him, is bizarre.

And yes, given the circumstances of the reboot, of course Uhura would want to comfort her lover after he lost his mother and his world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by for the one View Post

2.) As for the mining ship able to catch Spocks,- it was from the same era as the mining vessel. So one could speculate had simular tech. Spock not being able to out run it may have just been bad luck. He did appear right infront of their tractor beams.
That a mining ship could outrun just about anything isn't sensible. The idea that their tractor beams were sufficient to hold Spock's ship is. That Spock would just give them the red matter instead of protecting it somehow...just sloppy story telling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by for the one View Post
3.) The rotating ship simular to a B-5 Omega class- Look at the remastered classic Star Trek. There is a Orion Vessel that attacks a space station where a peace conferance is being held, that has that same rotating effect. Which is why I assumed in the movie it must be a futurist Orion ship Spock bought.
Spock said it was "our most advanced ship", whoever "our" might be. I assumed it was either Vulcan, Federation or Romulan. When last we say anything of Ambassador Spock, he was left on Romulus to affect reunification of the pan-Vulcan peoples. The film didn't say where red matter came from or where he was working on a solution for the super-nova issue. That he didn't make it in time to prevent the destruction of Romulus seems to me to infer that he came from much farther away.

Regardless, the twirling was silly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by for the one View Post
1.) The 'Constitution' Class vessel built on Earth-, I figured (as I mentioned earlier on this thread), was probably because of the Sulliban & Xindi Wars, also the 'Temporal Cold War', etc. With all the attacks on Earth and their ship, (remember Klingons attacked Enterprise right out of port of the shipping yards), they probably wanted to keep it a secret.
Wasn't there a great big giant spacedock in orbit of Earth? And given that they have shown that Earth (or any Federation planet for that matter) didn't have a single defensive weapon, what was to stop it being blasted from orbit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by for the one View Post
2.) Romulans waiting 25 years when they could have just warned Romulus then attacked Spock-Thus preventing the loss of all their race.- A exreemly good point. Maybe his hatred skewed his logic, kind of like a angry bull charging a matidor with a spear, or perhaps his skewed honor. Go back and watch 'Ballance of Terror' again... Watch how the brilliant tactical genius Romulan, is swayed towards a unlogical decision that gets them all killed. He listened to his lessers plea for the honor of Romulus and not to return in disgrace. So like the bull he attacks the matidor (Spocks ship) and of coarse it is his ending; as the Enterprise whips out his whole arsenal of proton torpedoes which he fires at Spocks ship.
The Romulan commander in BoT chose fulfilling the implied "Praetor's wishes" and preventing a powerful underling from acquiring more power when returning to Romulus than the other choice, which might have been more prudent. He knew the Federation captain was "a sorcerer". He also knew they were out of fuel. In his mind, it could have meant that they would have all died anyway before reaching home. Hard to say.

The point that Nero was basically a mining ship commander and not a military officer is a better explanation of his acts. He wanted revenge for the death of his wife and his planet. I find it a little flimsy, but there it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by for the one View Post
3.) Spock/Uhura- Actually if everyone will recall Nurse Chapel had a thing for Spock. She was madly in love with him, that was kind of an on going theme in a couple episodes. So women being drawn to him is nothing new or alien to classic Star Trek. I think Darth Librarian mentioned this if I recall.
That women were attracted to Spock is canon. That Spock took action on that fact happened 3 times. T'Pring (Amok Time), the second Romulan commander (The Enterprise Incident) and Leila Kalomi (This Side of Paradise). All three of these romances were because of a specific reason. Pon farr, Espionage and the effect of spores. Spock never engaged in random "oh she's hot...let's screw" behavior. As I said, jarring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B5_Obsessed View Post
There never should have been ridges in the first place. Vulcan and Romulans were the same species only a thousand years earlier. Good riddance. Nero and his crew shaved their heads and adorned themselves with war tattoos after the destruction of Romulus.
We know this...how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by B5_Obsessed View Post
Nero's ship, the Narada, did not originally look as it does in the film. It was enhanced with Borg technology raided from a Romulan research base (shades of EA advanced destryoers anyone?) after Nero went on the warpath.
Ditto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B5_Obsessed View Post
The Enterprise was built in Riverside, Iowa to commemorate the brave sacrifice of George Samuel Kirk. It was also built 13 years later in this reality. The depiction of the ship being built on the ground was the choice of the filmmakers. They figured it was easier and safer to build on the ground and anti-grav units could boost it to orbit with no problem.
Ditto, and okay, that is somewhat reasonable. It was certainly a visual moment in the film.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B5_Obsessed View Post
25 years is a long time to not re-evaluate your position. The following was edited out of the film: After being rammed by the Kelvin, the Narada was vulnerable and was captured by the Klingons. Nero and his crew were sentenced to life at the penal asteroid, Rura Penthe, where they spent most of the next 25 years and Nero loses part of his ear. Finally, Nero and crew plan and execute their escape and Nero utters the phrase "The wait is over" as seen in the trailers. They manage to re-acquire the ship (which has inexplicably not been stripped apart) and destroy 47 Klingon ships on their way out of Klingon space (which is referenced in the film). As for warning Romulus, I think Nero's feeling may have been that this alternate reality had nothing to do with his life that was destroyed.
I would say "ditto" again, but it is getting tiresome.

I will assume this information is garnered from the book tie-in to the film that has details not otherwise known in the film itself.
__________________
"As far as bright ideas go, this is right up there with having my gums extracted." - Michael Garibaldi
Markas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 7th 09, 21:27   #150
B5_Obsessed
First One
 
B5_Obsessed's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Orlando, FL USA
Posts: 1,942
Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markas View Post

We know this...how?
Because, I'm telling ya.
B5_Obsessed is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2018 B5TV.COM