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Old May 12th 09, 05:36   #41
hypatia
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Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

"Star Trek does the Orion Slave Women" might just give all of those Trekkers a seizure or something.

The movie isn't going anywhere soon. There's time for BBQs and the movie. I'll likely wait until the ticket price goes down (meaning it would move to the cheaper theater) or, much more likely, untl around December or so when it's out on DVD. Or on HBO, or whatever.
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Old May 12th 09, 12:23   #42
darth_librarian
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Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

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Originally Posted by hypatia View Post
I figured that much, Trek has always been a bit careful about that.

So, edit out the words "and sex" from my post, and I've basically go the right picture here?
Yeah, but Trek movies have rarely been sci-fi hardcore heavy, that was saved for the series. There is enough time travel, causality and black hole stuff here to keep us geeks happy, although nothing new or revolutionary.

For me, it worked because the characters are intact, well respected by cast and writers, and it was damn good to see them all on screen again. The crucial Kirk, Mcoy and Spock interplay was also there. The film had more of a sense of adventure than any of the films since Star Trek VI, my personal fave.

Nero was hardly Kahn, but then which Trek villains are ?

KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHN NNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!
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Old May 15th 09, 06:51   #43
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Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

The story was a Trek story. Convenient in all the right places. Contrived where it should be, and (in some parts) completely unbelievable, yet cool enough to say, "yeah, ok, I'm going along for the ride."

I guess I don't look at Trek and say, "hmmm, yes. GOOD storylines."

For me, you have different types of narratives: character-based, setting-based, story-based. This was character-based, imho. And because the characters felt strong to me, I didn't mind the above mentioned story issues.

I think nailing most of the elements (characters/special effects/humor/emotion, etc) will overcome a less than "uber" story/narrative.

Whereas something like Wolverine, I felt lacked too much in character AND story and that was a bit less forgivable in my opinion.

Hyp, I think it depends on what you like in stories. If you need a good, story that is really hard-core narrative-driven, this isn't the movie. But, I don't ever seem to recall Trek movies/shows every really being stellar on the storylines. That was more a B5 thing, imho (along with the amazing characters, etc.)

If you love good characterization and are willing to give and take, then you may like it. I had to see it in a theater because I really wanted to experience the special effects above all. It was a GREAT in-theater movie, imho. I don't think it will be as "sparklie/awe-inspiring" on DVD as it would in a really big theater with the whole atmosphere, etc. Just my experience. =)
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Old May 15th 09, 08:54   #44
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Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by darth_librarian View Post
Yeah, but Trek movies have rarely been sci-fi hardcore heavy, that was saved for the series. There is enough time travel, causality and black hole stuff here to keep us geeks happy, although nothing new or revolutionary.

For me, it worked because the characters are intact, well respected by cast and writers, and it was damn good to see them all on screen again. The crucial Kirk, Mcoy and Spock interplay was also there. The film had more of a sense of adventure than any of the films since Star Trek VI, my personal fave.

Nero was hardly Kahn, but then which Trek villains are ?

KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHN NNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!
Hello everyone it's For the One,
I haven't dipped into this area of the pool in a while, I hope it's warm.
The Star Trek movie: I personally give the movie 5 stars. I thought Karl Urban as Bones McCoy (who played Eomer in The Lord of the Rings) did the most amazing 'spot on' performance of the docter I've ever scene. WOW! If he doesn't get a oscar nod for that performance there is no justice in this world, seriously.

In case if anyone in the world is wondering I am a Trekie, GEEKS UNIT!!! But no I don't dress up in those costumes and makeup. I was born in 1968 and I was raised on the reruns of classic Trek. I tried very hard to keep a open mind when I went to see the new film. WAY MEGA COOL MOVIE BY THE WAY!!!!

I noticed immediately that many Trekkies will see some very major continuity issues, but all you Trekkers out there don't get your shirt in a knot.
I can explain it all away easy enough. Okay here we go.
The continuity issues are as follows, followed by a brief explaination:
1.) The ship looks almost like Star Trek The Motion Picture in many ways, some what futuristic beyond the classic series.
2.) The warp engine sounds different.
3.) The warp is different.
4.) The hand weapons are dual use laser gun/phasers.
Now all of these are easy to explain away:
>The Sulliban War introduced technology we weren't suppose to have yet, due to being from way in the future beyond Next Generation even.
>The Borg tech left on Earth also inspired a much more accelerated rate of technological advancement.

Now for the not so easy to explain away.
1.) Christopher Pike is too old. In 'Managerie' & 'The Cage', Pike is obviously a young man. Also In 'Minagerie', a obviously older then the recent film 'Spock', is with a young Pike, hmmmm.
>To explain this obvious owps the writers could at the end of a new Star trek tv or film series run; have Pike find a fountain of youth. Only to end up being horribly scared in time for the 'Minagerie' episode. BUMMER....
2.) San Francisco yards orbiting Earth was were Enterprise was built not on the surface.
>The Sulliban and Xindi Wars may have altered this, for safety reasons they may have constructed this new advanced prototype on the surface.
3.) The first Enterprise Captain was Robert April not Christopher Pike despite popular belief.
>Do to the recent time travel Romulan events, Captain Pike was picked over Captain April to man the new Enterprise.
4.) Why doesn't Spock just go around the sun and save Vulcan and his mom.
> Who knows maybe he thinks he's getting to old to fight such powerful foes.
Maybe he's affraid of altering time even further creating a even worse time parodox,
who knows. I'm sure if it's allowed to have a spin off, Vulcan while eventually be brought back, so everyone with a big hole in their heart can breath easy again.

THERE SEE, WITH A LITTLE CLEVER WRITING IT'S ALL FIXED. NO CONTINUITY GAPS!!! All is well in the world. Like I said THE MOVIE ROCKS, GIVE IT A CHANCE, all you Trekies out there. This thing can work. Go see it, embrace the fun.

***Darth Librarian: I'm with you I love Star Trek VI, I also love Star Trek II & Kahn is still the best baddie.
However, when you said that, "Nero was hardly Khan", I think it's important to understand were the director is coming from here. The director was probably trying to achieve a new approach. The bad guy in the new Star Trek is the every day man, the guy next door. Ordinarily he would have probably been a nice guy.
***SPOILER ALERT***
Then his whole world is ripped apart and everyone he loves; and a kind of maddness, fueled by rage and the desire for vengence takes over. He's not a real warlord, just a Romulan Captain who lost his family & home world. Thus he seems very passive at first after his initial attack on the USS Kelvin Federation warship, almost like he had appeased his rage and now he was calm again. The meeting with the Captain of the USS Kelvin reignites his fury when the Cpt. says,"Who are you to attack a Federation Vessel?" Bringing out the beast within the once docile man. He's just a man in pain, who just so happens to be in a very powerful ship. Just food for thought. PEACE OUT.
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Old May 15th 09, 09:59   #45
darth_librarian
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Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

Good points there, the effects of the whole Enterprise series and the temporal cold war have not really been considered by fans when arguing about this..

Also, Enterprise crucially introduced bare-ass into Trek well before this apprently misogynistic film:

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Harbinger_(episode)

And nicely done it was too.

Back to the geekery, one of the movie writers, Robert Orci I think stated in an AICN talkback that the scans of Nero's ship taken by the Kelivn and saved on their shuttles allowed the Federation to develop at a technologically quicker rate.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/USS_Enterprise_(alternate_reality)

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/USS_Enterprise_(alternate_reality)#Continuity

The technical difference between this new Enterprise and the one from the other timeline is also denoted by its difference in size and crew capacity:

http://gizmodo.com/5253324/how-big-i...yline=true&s=i

Although i'm sure the writers just wanted to make it begger and better ...
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"Thanks to TV and for the convenience of TV, you can only be one of two kinds of human beings, either a liberal or a conservative."
- Kurt Vonnegut

"There's no point debating anything online. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional "live audience" quickly conspire to create a "perfect storm" of perpetual bickering."
- Charlie Brooker

Last edited by Chilli; May 15th 09 at 17:56. Reason: Fixed Links
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Old May 15th 09, 10:21   #46
for the one
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Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

Cool news updates there, the insites and your opinion I'm am at one with you. Well said.....
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Old May 15th 09, 11:10   #47
darth_librarian
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Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

Hmm, not sure I totally believe the Shat-master there.
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"There's no point debating anything online. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional "live audience" quickly conspire to create a "perfect storm" of perpetual bickering."
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Old May 15th 09, 12:42   #48
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Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

Writer Bob Orci attempts to talk to naysaying geeks here:

http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/14/st09...warstrek-more/

Mostly about time travel, black holes and stuff. Kudos to the man for engaging with the fanbase like this. Even after JMS, not many writers do this.
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- Kurt Vonnegut

"There's no point debating anything online. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional "live audience" quickly conspire to create a "perfect storm" of perpetual bickering."
- Charlie Brooker
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Old May 15th 09, 15:23   #49
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Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

Chilli: I wondered how much personalities would change for this new movie. Kirk pretty much has to be what most would consider to be a younger version of the same basic guy, I assumed. Spock looked more emotional in the previews that a vulcan ever would be (but the vulcans in Enterprise did, as well). But Kirk, of course, must be Kirk. And Kirk came up with some "creative" solutions, it was part of his personality.

Spock, on the other hand, was his personality basically "reset" for this movie? Did the Vulcans not become a society that supresses all emotion except at one moment in life, for mating purposes? Is his human half stronger? The previews I've seen make me wonder if the old character of Spock simply proved inconveniently unemotional, and so was abandoned. I do hope that's just the usual preview-skewed perception. I really hated the emotionalism of the vulcans in Enterprise as well. It was such an interesting, and defining, character aspect.

I'm sure to find out it will be worth renting on DVD. I don't miss big screen special effects, though they are fun when you've got them. For that I can always see "Earth".
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Old May 15th 09, 19:29   #50
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Re: Star Trek (SPOILERS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilli View Post
One movie comes to mind here.

Star Trek. .. which does not have no female skin, but does have more male skin than female skin. While we get a glimpse at Uhura's underwear, Kirk is in his undies throughout the whole scene.

I can, also, off the top of my head, think of several other movies that have more male nudity than female nudity, or only male nudity.

The Piano
Goodbye Lenin
American History X
X Men Origins: Wolverine
Innerspace
Demolition Man
All the Terminator films
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