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HBO's Rome
- Thread starter Alluveal
- Start date
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
Re: HBO\'s Rome
I don't get HBO, so I'm at ther mercy of somebody taping it for me to watch later. I did catch about the first ten minutes while at my sister's house earlier this evening. (Evidently I left just before a hot sex scene started - my luck.
) First impression: The battle scene looked good, the costumes were OK, Caesar should have been played by a better-looking actor (he was famously handsome, as was Pompey)
Oh, good. Then they got something else right. Butus was decidedly a weenie, a disappointment to nearly all who knew him, including Caesar and most especailly his mother. His uncle Cato (who was himself a horrible prig - honest as the day is long, hence his reputation, but a hectoring, moralizing buzz-kill of the first water) tolerated him, probably because Brutus's company inflicted exactly the kind of pain that a Stoic of Cato's type considered virtuous.
Caesar put up with Brutus because he'd known him from childhood and because his daughter Julia had had a soft spot for him when they were young. (Although she was probably relieved when for political reasons her father decided against letting her marry Brutus. The fact that by that time Caesar was banging Brutus's mother Servilla would have made the marriage awkward to say the least. The affair with Servilla - which is well documented in the ancient sources - gave rise to the false notion that Caesar was Brutus's real father, hence some versions of his last words being, "And you too, my son?" (or "my child?") But the affair started long after Brutus was born. The fact that Brutus's father died when he was young, and that Caesar acted as something of a mentor to him when he was growing up is enough to explain Caesar's words to him on the Ides of March - assuming those were his words, since the ancient sources vary on this point.
I'll be interested to see what the whole episode looks like.
Regards,
Joe
I don't get HBO, so I'm at ther mercy of somebody taping it for me to watch later. I did catch about the first ten minutes while at my sister's house earlier this evening. (Evidently I left just before a hot sex scene started - my luck.
) First impression: The battle scene looked good, the costumes were OK, Caesar should have been played by a better-looking actor (he was famously handsome, as was Pompey)Oh, good. Then they got something else right.
Butus was decidedly a weenie, a disappointment to nearly all who knew him, including Caesar and most especailly his mother. His uncle Cato (who was himself a horrible prig - honest as the day is long, hence his reputation, but a hectoring, moralizing buzz-kill of the first water) tolerated him, probably because Brutus's company inflicted exactly the kind of pain that a Stoic of Cato's type considered virtuous. Caesar put up with Brutus because he'd known him from childhood and because his daughter Julia had had a soft spot for him when they were young. (Although she was probably relieved when for political reasons her father decided against letting her marry Brutus. The fact that by that time Caesar was banging Brutus's mother Servilla would have made the marriage awkward to say the least. The affair with Servilla - which is well documented in the ancient sources - gave rise to the false notion that Caesar was Brutus's real father, hence some versions of his last words being, "And you too, my son?" (or "my child?") But the affair started long after Brutus was born. The fact that Brutus's father died when he was young, and that Caesar acted as something of a mentor to him when he was growing up is enough to explain Caesar's words to him on the Ides of March - assuming those were his words, since the ancient sources vary on this point.
I'll be interested to see what the whole episode looks like.
Regards,
Joe
Alluveal
Regular
Re: HBO\'s Rome
Caesar and Pompey are both looking to be growing rather long in the tooth (especially Pompey.) I didn't know they were both considered lookers. Hrrrm. Though I think the actor who plays Caesar has potential to bring some charisma to the role from what I can tell so far.
Caesar and Pompey are both looking to be growing rather long in the tooth (especially Pompey.) I didn't know they were both considered lookers. Hrrrm. Though I think the actor who plays Caesar has potential to bring some charisma to the role from what I can tell so far.
A_M_Swallow
Regular
Re: HBO\'s Rome
The BBC will be showing "Rome" in the autumn.
The BBC will be showing "Rome" in the autumn.
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
Re: HBO\'s Rome
They would both be in their 50s at the time depicted, not really so old in a time when members of the upper classes, at least, often reached their 70s, not rarely their 80s and even their 90s.
Pompey was only about 6 years older than Caesar, but started his military career at a much younger age. (Pompey's father, Gnaeus Pompey Strabo - "Cross-eyes" - was a great landowner who virtually ruled as a king in his own region, and maintained what amounted to a private army. Pompey was only a teenager when his father died and he inherited both his father's wealth and the loyalty of all those veteran troops - which he enrolled in Rome's legions, but kept under his own command and sometimes paid for out of his own pocket.)
In his youth Pompey was often compared to Alexander the Great, in both appearance and military ability. No one saw the resemblance more clearly than Pompey himself, which is probably what led him to bestow the title of Magnus ("Great") on himself after a few victories quite early in his career. Alexander was, of course, considered one of the most perfect physical specimins of the ancient world.
Caesar was so handsome, almost pretty - especially so as a very young man - that some people found plausible the charge that as a junior officer he once prostituted himself to the notoriously homosexual King of Bythinia to gain his support for a Roman military expedition. Any hint of homosexual activity, especially as a "catcher" as it were, was enough to end a Roman's political career, and Caesar spent years living the charge down. (He never dignified the rumor by denying it directly, but used his good looks to seduce the wives of his political opponents, thus proving his virility and shaming them. His sexual conquests were legendary.)
Apart from premature balding (which he was very self-concious about since "Caesar" is a nickname referring to a fine head of hair) Caesar aged very well and was still quite a handsome man at the time of his death - as evidenced by the authenticated busts we stil have of him. Pompey was so handsome as a young man that Rome's street vendors did a brisk business in cheap miniature plaster busts of him, copied from official statues, and sold mostly to teenaged girls. (Although some probably also found their way to their mothers.) If it is possible for a politician to have groupies, Pompey did. He was something of a cross between George Custer and John F. Kennedy, and the people reacted accordingly.
Although heavier in the face and a bit jowly in the last busts made of him, Pompey was also considered a good-looking man right up to his untimely end.
Regards,
Joe
They would both be in their 50s at the time depicted, not really so old in a time when members of the upper classes, at least, often reached their 70s, not rarely their 80s and even their 90s.
Pompey was only about 6 years older than Caesar, but started his military career at a much younger age. (Pompey's father, Gnaeus Pompey Strabo - "Cross-eyes" - was a great landowner who virtually ruled as a king in his own region, and maintained what amounted to a private army. Pompey was only a teenager when his father died and he inherited both his father's wealth and the loyalty of all those veteran troops - which he enrolled in Rome's legions, but kept under his own command and sometimes paid for out of his own pocket.)
In his youth Pompey was often compared to Alexander the Great, in both appearance and military ability. No one saw the resemblance more clearly than Pompey himself, which is probably what led him to bestow the title of Magnus ("Great") on himself after a few victories quite early in his career. Alexander was, of course, considered one of the most perfect physical specimins of the ancient world.
Caesar was so handsome, almost pretty - especially so as a very young man - that some people found plausible the charge that as a junior officer he once prostituted himself to the notoriously homosexual King of Bythinia to gain his support for a Roman military expedition. Any hint of homosexual activity, especially as a "catcher" as it were, was enough to end a Roman's political career, and Caesar spent years living the charge down. (He never dignified the rumor by denying it directly, but used his good looks to seduce the wives of his political opponents, thus proving his virility and shaming them. His sexual conquests were legendary.)
Apart from premature balding (which he was very self-concious about since "Caesar" is a nickname referring to a fine head of hair) Caesar aged very well and was still quite a handsome man at the time of his death - as evidenced by the authenticated busts we stil have of him. Pompey was so handsome as a young man that Rome's street vendors did a brisk business in cheap miniature plaster busts of him, copied from official statues, and sold mostly to teenaged girls. (Although some probably also found their way to their mothers.) If it is possible for a politician to have groupies, Pompey did. He was something of a cross between George Custer and John F. Kennedy, and the people reacted accordingly.
Although heavier in the face and a bit jowly in the last busts made of him, Pompey was also considered a good-looking man right up to his untimely end.
Regards,
Joe
Oatley1
Beyond the rim
Re: HBO\'s Rome
Looking at his military victories up until he bacame part of the triumvirate, I would say his title was completely justified. Much like Gaius Marius, he was a military genius who found himself crippled by the envious Senators back in Rome, who were frightened of him, while at the same time contemptous of his origins.
I believe he was Caesar's equal in terms of military ability, though Caesar was the far greater political strategist. In fact, Pompey almost won the civil war at the siege of Dyrrhachium, if only and had he pushed that little bit more and finished it. As it was, Caesar lived to fight another day...
Looking at his military victories up until he bacame part of the triumvirate, I would say his title was completely justified. Much like Gaius Marius, he was a military genius who found himself crippled by the envious Senators back in Rome, who were frightened of him, while at the same time contemptous of his origins.
I believe he was Caesar's equal in terms of military ability, though Caesar was the far greater political strategist. In fact, Pompey almost won the civil war at the siege of Dyrrhachium, if only and had he pushed that little bit more and finished it. As it was, Caesar lived to fight another day...
Jade Jaguar
Regular
Re: HBO\'s Rome
Listening to the opening music, it reminded me so much of Carnivale's music, which I loved. I looked it up, and sure enough, Jeff Beal did both. The intro visuals are very striking, but not quite as good as Carnivale's, which were the most amazing I've ever seen. The sonic imaging of the sound track in Dolby Digital was amazing, with lots of little things going on in the rear channels.
The production values throughout the ep were tremendous. The acting was, over all, good. Dramatically, I found Rome decent, but unexceptional. But, this is a first ep, and that needs time to build. Like GKE, I found politically savy patrician brat Octavian to be an interesting suprise. I liked how the soldiers, who at first thought him a slave, or a nobody, immediately accepted him when he started spouting off, and proved himself to be more politically astute than they were. It was also a cheap way to advance the plot, by explaining a lot of details, but didn't come off as cheap at all.
I also liked the rather mundane feel of the way they handled the sex scenes. You could hardly do "Rome" justice without showing some sexual activities, but they were done in such a matter-of-fact way, and weren't dwelt on in a pandering manner. Besides that, the women were hot, but didn't have a look that screamed their endowments were surgical.
I'll be watching more.
Listening to the opening music, it reminded me so much of Carnivale's music, which I loved. I looked it up, and sure enough, Jeff Beal did both. The intro visuals are very striking, but not quite as good as Carnivale's, which were the most amazing I've ever seen. The sonic imaging of the sound track in Dolby Digital was amazing, with lots of little things going on in the rear channels.
The production values throughout the ep were tremendous. The acting was, over all, good. Dramatically, I found Rome decent, but unexceptional. But, this is a first ep, and that needs time to build. Like GKE, I found politically savy patrician brat Octavian to be an interesting suprise. I liked how the soldiers, who at first thought him a slave, or a nobody, immediately accepted him when he started spouting off, and proved himself to be more politically astute than they were. It was also a cheap way to advance the plot, by explaining a lot of details, but didn't come off as cheap at all.
I also liked the rather mundane feel of the way they handled the sex scenes. You could hardly do "Rome" justice without showing some sexual activities, but they were done in such a matter-of-fact way, and weren't dwelt on in a pandering manner. Besides that, the women were hot, but didn't have a look that screamed their endowments were surgical.
I'll be watching more.
Alluveal
Regular
Re: HBO\'s Rome
Yeah, I thought the sexual tone was brushed off as if it was "no big deal," which is (I assume) how things were during the height of Rome's decadence? Even the mother/son relationship was a bit odd. Sure honey, mommy's taking a bath, and totally naked, but come on in and talk to me! don't be shy!
Yeah, I thought the sexual tone was brushed off as if it was "no big deal," which is (I assume) how things were during the height of Rome's decadence? Even the mother/son relationship was a bit odd. Sure honey, mommy's taking a bath, and totally naked, but come on in and talk to me! don't be shy!
darth_librarian
Regular
Re: HBO\'s Rome
I saw a lame TV drama in the UK about Bodecia, in which the mum and son did a lot more than just look at each other. By all accounts, (and i'll check with a mate who is doing a Phd on Ancient Rome) it happened quite a bit.
I saw a lame TV drama in the UK about Bodecia, in which the mum and son did a lot more than just look at each other. By all accounts, (and i'll check with a mate who is doing a Phd on Ancient Rome) it happened quite a bit.
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
Re: HBO\'s Rome
If they do several seasons of this show they'll eventually get around Agustus's daughter Julia and her banishment for unchastity (not only were the male servants her father sent into exile with her eunuchs, but many - both male and female - were said to have had their tongues cut out*), Tiberius's pedophillia, Caligula's passion for his sister, Messalina's competition with Rome's most notorious whore, and the even seamier stuff of the later emipre. Surely HBO and the BBC of 2005 can get away with more than what was shown in I, Claudius.
Regards,
Joe
* Augustus was nothing if not thorough.
Why not Rome too?
If they do several seasons of this show they'll eventually get around Agustus's daughter Julia and her banishment for unchastity (not only were the male servants her father sent into exile with her eunuchs, but many - both male and female - were said to have had their tongues cut out*), Tiberius's pedophillia, Caligula's passion for his sister, Messalina's competition with Rome's most notorious whore, and the even seamier stuff of the later emipre. Surely HBO and the BBC of 2005 can get away with more than what was shown in I, Claudius.
Regards,
Joe
* Augustus was nothing if not thorough.
KoshFan
Regular
Re: HBO\'s Rome
I wouldn't say that the period of Gaius Julius Caesar was the height of Rome's decadence. Admittedly it's a subjective thing, but I'd place that a hundred years later or so with Nero. Although Caligula was known to have fun as well.
Thank goodness Vespasian cleaned things up after that.
I wouldn't say that the period of Gaius Julius Caesar was the height of Rome's decadence. Admittedly it's a subjective thing, but I'd place that a hundred years later or so with Nero. Although Caligula was known to have fun as well.
Thank goodness Vespasian cleaned things up after that.
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
Re: HBO\'s Rome
True, but today they could be a lot more explicit about all of it. And Claudius was very much informed by Grave's take on things, and on the state of research at the time he was writing. The same events dramatized today might look very different.
Regards,
Joe
True, but today they could be a lot more explicit about all of it. And Claudius was very much informed by Grave's take on things, and on the state of research at the time he was writing. The same events dramatized today might look very different.
Regards,
Joe
GKarsEye
Regular
Re: HBO\'s Rome
Well certainly HBO has more latitude (and maybe more money) than any TV production studio ever, as well as the critical respect to be taken seriously. But, I dunno, I got sufficiently creeped out by Caligula and Nero in I, Claudius. Implied action can be creepier than when it's shown.
Completely off-topic, I wish HBO or even Hollywood would tackle something historical that hasn't been done. I mean, this serious is like, what, the 70th billion Rome thing done on screen? How about the Byzantine Empire? Or the Olmecs or some such... something different, something that really open people up to chunks of history they never think about.
Well certainly HBO has more latitude (and maybe more money) than any TV production studio ever, as well as the critical respect to be taken seriously. But, I dunno, I got sufficiently creeped out by Caligula and Nero in I, Claudius. Implied action can be creepier than when it's shown.
Completely off-topic, I wish HBO or even Hollywood would tackle something historical that hasn't been done. I mean, this serious is like, what, the 70th billion Rome thing done on screen? How about the Byzantine Empire? Or the Olmecs or some such... something different, something that really open people up to chunks of history they never think about.
Oatley1
Beyond the rim
Re: HBO\'s Rome
If you want decadence during the Empire, you need to read the exploits of Elagabalus - emperor from 218 to 222 AD. His exploits would make your hair stand on end, and make the antics of Caligula and Nero look like a series of innocent walks through the park.
If you want decadence during the Empire, you need to read the exploits of Elagabalus - emperor from 218 to 222 AD. His exploits would make your hair stand on end, and make the antics of Caligula and Nero look like a series of innocent walks through the park.
Jade Jaguar
Regular
Re: HBO\'s Rome
I agree completely. The Olmecs were once believed to be the seminal culture of Central America, but now days, we aren't so sure. There seem to have been others. But, we don't really know enough about the Olmecs to pull it off. However, we do know much more about the Mayas. A good historical fiction writer could read Linda Schele's A Forest Of Kings, and get enough geneology to go on. Pacal the Great ruled Palenque for 69 years. That would be a good starting point. But, the problem is that western culture is devoted to the "Classic" cultures of Greece, Rome, and Egypt. So, few exceptions make it to the screen, like Shogun. But, even when they do Rome, they keep going over the same territory. I wouldn't mind seeing something based on the Punic Wars, from Carthage's point of view, preferably while they were winning!
I agree completely. The Olmecs were once believed to be the seminal culture of Central America, but now days, we aren't so sure. There seem to have been others. But, we don't really know enough about the Olmecs to pull it off. However, we do know much more about the Mayas. A good historical fiction writer could read Linda Schele's A Forest Of Kings, and get enough geneology to go on. Pacal the Great ruled Palenque for 69 years. That would be a good starting point. But, the problem is that western culture is devoted to the "Classic" cultures of Greece, Rome, and Egypt. So, few exceptions make it to the screen, like Shogun. But, even when they do Rome, they keep going over the same territory. I wouldn't mind seeing something based on the Punic Wars, from Carthage's point of view, preferably while they were winning!
