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Old May 31st 02, 21:59   #1
Chilli
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Legions of Fire

I just finished reading the trilogy. Not bad. I would have loved if we would have gotten to know David Sheridan a little better, here or in a TV movie or something. It nicely ties in to the future we saw and makes sense most of the times.

But one thing i noticed what is not necesseraly a mistake of the writer but Delenn not being as good a quick thinker as usual but:

When Sheridan is replaced by the Sheridan from 2260:

1) He asks her if there is anything he can do to stop this future from happening. She says there isn't. What is true. They DID drive away the shadows, etc. and the fate Centauri Prime paid could not have been avoided BUT one thing could have been avoided. Why does she not tell him that in a few years, Londo will be giving them an urn and that he should see to it that that urn is destroyed? At this point of the book, she doesn't know that David will turn out ok. It looked like she and Jonnyboy where screwed totally too, by the way. And, the presence of none of these 3 really had any neccesity for the situation to turn out for the good.

2) After talking to Londo on the way to the ship when John is being pulled back in time, her instinkts take over and tell him not to go to z'ha'dum. He had told here in his goodbye message before he went to Z'ha'dum that he had seen the future and she had warned him not to go to Z'ha'dum. He thought that maybe this future happened because he had listened to her warning and didn't go to Z'ha'dum. She KNEW that just telling him not to go to Z'ha'dum wouldn't change Jack, in the contrary, it would give him a reason to go. So, why did she not either not tell him at all not to go or tell him "Do not go to Z'ha'dum. Going won't avoid anything!" or something around those lines.

Also, this led me to think: What would have happened if he had not gone to Z'ha'dum?
My guess is that they would have lost the Shadow war. Without the understanding he gained by the shadows and by Lorien he would not have been able to talk the shadows and the vorlons into getting the hell out of the galaxy, without the messiac possition he gained by coming back from the dead he would not have been able to pull the races together the way he did. Either way it would have been worse then the future that happened..i guess.

As it said in the book when she told John not to go she was not in controll of herself.

See ya later
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Old June 1st 02, 23:02   #2
Elizar
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Re: Legions of Fire

Very good points. I like the book, and I never realized those parts. But, when time travel is involved in anything, there's always something possibly wrong. Good observations. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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Old June 1st 02, 23:21   #3
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Re: Legions of Fire

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ChiLlBeserker:
<font color=yellow>Also, this led me to think: What would have happened if he had not gone to Z'ha'dum?
My guess is that they would have lost the Shadow war. Without the understanding he gained by the shadows and by Lorien he would not have been able to talk the shadows and the vorlons into getting the hell out of the galaxy, without the messiac possition he gained by coming back from the dead he would not have been able to pull the races together the way he did. Either way it would have been worse then the future that happened..i guess.
</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

If Sheridan had not gone to Z'ha'dum and nuked it the Vorlons would have continued with their current strategy. The Vorlons thought that this was just another round in their 1,000,000 year old cold war with the Shadows. Without much thought they probably expected it to last another 1,000,000 years. The nuking showed that the Shadows were vulnerable and since the arrival of Babylon 4 they war had been in endgame. The Vorlons reacted by getting their planet killers out.
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Old June 2nd 02, 10:38   #4
gethigh
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Re: Legions of Fire

Some things that seem resonable with a second thought are not all that obvious when quick decisions are to be made. Delenn didn't know how long "past" Sheriden was going to be there, and indeed, having the chance to change the past in order to change the future doesn't fall onto a person's lap very often. So when she got the chance, she immediately thought of the one thing which she kept in her mind ever since Sheriden went to Za'hadum and "died" there (this was mentioned various times in the last book of the trilogy), which was how much time he had left to live. She didn't care about the situation, about the Alliance, about the Centauri, and even about David's well-being--what she cared about was Sheridan. Perhaps, J.M.S.'s everlasting theme of Babylon 5 was the true power of love and what it can lead people to do, even if it was against rationality or even doing what was "right."
Some examples include:
Delenn's revenge for Dukhat
Lennier's betrayel for Delenn
Marcus's sacrafice for Ivanova
Lyta's revenge for Byron
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Old June 2nd 02, 15:53   #5
Chilli
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Re: Legions of Fire

I would think that what Sheridan said in his goodbye message should have burnt itself into Delenn's mind. She knew that he went because he had thought that she had told him that a) this future could not have been prevented b) not to go to Z'ha'dum. That he came to the conclusion that she had told him not to go to Z'ha'dum out of interest in his wellbeigns and not those of the cause (which of corse, is true. She DID just tell him not to go out of interest in his wellbeign.). She KNEW this. She KNEW that telling him not to go was giving him an extra reason to go.
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Old June 2nd 02, 23:18   #6
gethigh
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Re: Legions of Fire

You have to understand that this is like that "telling him not to go will make him go" kind of psychology is flawed in some respects. Sheridan knew what he had to do. He made the conscious decision to go to Z'hadum even when KOSH told him to that he would die. So anyhow, he would have went no matter what. She just did it because it was the "human" thing to say...emotional outburst i suppose.
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Old June 9th 02, 02:26   #7
Gary Baldy
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Re: Legions of Fire

changing the focus of characters here a bit...

we know that david is rid of the keeper when garibaldi blew shiv'kala's head off. recall that scene in book 1(?) when londo was drunk and was waving the sword at shiv'kala and "could have easily killed him". had he did that, would the keeper have fallen off and the drakh beaten without such disasterous consequences for centauri prime?

in the episode "sleeping in night", the women in vir's bed didnt look like the actress that played senna in "in the beginning"... sly dog, eh?!

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Old June 9th 02, 02:30   #8
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Re: Legions of Fire

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gary Baldy:
<font color=yellow>in the episode "sleeping in night"</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

uuh, i think you mean Sleeping in Light
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Old June 9th 02, 22:17   #9
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Re: Legions of Fire

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
had he did that, would the keeper have fallen off and the drakh beaten without such disasterous consequences for centauri prime?

[/quote] Perhaps, perhaps not. The other alternative would have been the Drakh blowing up half the planet, quietly removing Londo, and finding a new puppet. Because there was no resistance movement, no attention from the Alliance, no technomages. Not the best time for moving, but sometimes, best times never come.
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