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Sanctity of Life - a b5 contradiction

G

Granite

Member
I was just thinking about 2x21 - "Comes the inquisitor"

near the end Delenn says "This is my cause LIFE! One life or a billion..."

yet...earlier in the season 2, Delenn fails to prevent the fall of Narn and the loss of millions on purpose.

"Some must be sacrificed, if others are to be saved" Is a common theme in the series, and among Delenn's actions during the saga. Is the "Comes The Inqusitor" line a writing snafu, or does it jive with the rest of the series? To me it's a contradiction...
 
I think the idea she is holding onto is something like......

.......if you have to choose between one life OR the billions saved by sacrificing that one life, then "some must be sacricficed if even more are to be saved".....

.........but when there is no comparison present, then it is the concept of "one life or a billion".......meaning you don't wait for a billion lives to be in jepardy before risking yours to save them, if there is even ONE life you can risk yourself to save now then it is no less you can save right now then it is the same imperitive as IF it were a billion in jepardy instead.

One is about minimizing the cost of lives (it assumes some WILL be lost no matter what), and the other is about the value that should be placed on a life itself and how do you differentiate between one priceless thing or 50 million times a priceless thing....

(it is not dissimilar to the season 5 episode when a Ranger in training believes risking it all for too small a thing would be a waste......Delenn would apply her 1 or a billion statement there........encouraging him to see no difference in the significance of the two opportunities to save life)

......both total values being beyond measure, and both requiring equal and entire effort...........supposedly.

I'm not sure I explained that too well, but I am pretty sure it's not a contradiction, just basically two different scenarios showing two independant parts (within a larger single catagory) of her values system ..........I think. :)
 
Delenn explained it pretty well in "Ship of Tears:"

"We had to choose between the deaths of millions... and the deaths of billions."
 
or does it jive with the rest of the series?
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The question should be "does it jibe (or gibe) with the rest of the series?", since "jibe" is a word that has "agree" as one of its meanings, but "jive" isn't. :) Just FYI.

Regards,

Joe
 
yet...earlier in the season 2, Delenn fails to prevent the fall of Narn and the loss of millions on purpose.
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I think it's more complex than that. Delen says that she can not trust the Narn (and rightfully so). Thus if she saves them now she is only saving them so they can get stronger and eradicate the Centauri. So the net lives saved is zero. She questions which is more important, a Narn life or a Centauri life. I'm sure that if it was as clear cut as saving millions of Narn life with no downside she would have done it (or at least fought harder to get the Grey Council to approve it).

Also, she runs into that whole problem that Churchill had with Coventry. If she were to reveal what she knew about Morden working with the Centauri then the Shadows would have known that the Minbari were on to them, they would have attacked before the Alliance was ready/formed, and the Shadow War would have been over before it started (and trilions of lives would have been lost).

(My memory is a bit hazy so I'm not sure which of these arguments apply to the episode you are talking about. One of them does though! Sorry :eek: )
 
or does it jive with the rest of the series?
Click to expand...

The question should be "does it jibe (or gibe) with the rest of the series?", since "jibe" is a word that has "agree" as one of its meanings, but "jive" isn't. :) Just FYI.

Regards,

Joe
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Is it against the law to slap a moderator? :rolleyes:
 
Upon examining Delenn's choice (to refrain from soliciting Minbari intervention in defense of Narn)... the following factors may deserve consideration:

1) Minbari government doesn't follow Delenn's whim. She has notable authority, but not dictatorial powers.

2) For Minbari to invest resources vital to opposing the Shadows into fighting the Centauri... might be foolish.

3) It might be especially foolish without certainty of the Narn civilization helping against Shadows (as opposed to seeking retribution against the Centauri).

4) Shadows themselves might be warned off, and prepare better. Delenn has *no* interest whatsoever in facing a better-prepared Shadow movement -- especially after all initial preparations on her side have been written off as a "false alarm".

5) Delenn might doubt the effectiveness of an ultimatum (and suspect the necessity of actual violence) against a Centauri leadership convinced of having a technically superior ally.

She might wonder... if by conducting such a move, she might actually be *helping* Shadows.

-----------

If in conflict, someone's life can be saved without risking another person's life, all is fine.

If someone being saved means another dying, but the person being saved was innocent of seeking conflict, and the person who has to die was guilty of provoking violence... conditions still favour intervening.

However, when both parties to conflict are guilty of seeking conflict... and the intervening third party would place oneself in great danger... and a far more dangerous fourth party is present (even involved in provoking the conflict)... then it becomes doubtful if the third party should intervene with the first two...

...or admit insufficient ability (cannot make a difference in everything) and prepare to stand against the fourth party making *their* (predictably far more dangerous) move.

It gets even more difficult when the parties are not persons but civilizations (composed of differently intentioned persons)... but one thing, I think, can be said.

Invervention must make a difference. Resources wasted for an intervention which blows up in the intervening party's face... may not be wisely spent.
 
4) Shadows themselves might be warned off, and prepare better. Delenn has *no* interest whatsoever in facing a better-prepared Shadow movement -- especially after all initial preparations on her side have been written off as a "false alarm".
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I never gave the matter much thought, other than in terms of character development, because I just assumed this was the reason.

It's interesting to read the other possibilities people have mentioned. :cool:
 
Come to Babbleon and slap me, then see what happens. :devil:
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<sigh> You know, it really sucks being a coward :( </sigh>

edit: wait. Babbleon? Is that like a forum or website or something? Google gives me LOTS of babbleons. Or I could just be overanalyzing things as per usual? FINE. :rolleyes:

edit2: Oh. You mean THIS Babbleon :eek: . Hehe. Nevermind.
 
I've killed a moderator. But he respawned again when I mentioned Alyson Hannigan and Cheese in the same sentance. :rolleyes:


"Everyone around me dies.......except those who really deserve it."


But it CAN be done. I'm thinking of expanding to other mods........but the good choices for elimination never come into babbleon. :p
 
Also, she runs into that whole problem that Churchill had with Coventry. If she were to reveal what she knew about Morden working with the Centauri then the Shadows would have known that the Minbari were on to them, they would have attacked before the Alliance was ready/formed, and the Shadow War would have been over before it started (and trilions of lives would have been lost).
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This and only this is exactly the reason Delenn let Narn fall. It is not mystery- she tells G"Kar this point blank (in one of the most powerful scenes in the series).
 
I've killed a moderator. But he respawned again when I mentioned Alyson Hannigan and Cheese in the same sentance.
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Well, you did mention two of the most life-giving things in the universe together. It's your own darn fault.
 
It's an interesting thought to consider Delenn as pro-life. She is not even in favor of execution. However, I believe the issue posed is comparing apples and oranges. Her comment in Comes the Inquisitor can only be interpreted in the context of her own responsibilities. There is no treaty alliance of mutual protection between Minbar and Narn, as our NATO where an attack on one member is an attack on all. Intelligence services of different nations do not exchange information except as allowed by treaties. There is no evidence that Delenn had any advance intelligence that the Centauri would attack the Narn homeworld, although the nature of war between those two parties could have predicted it. The negligence lies not with Delenn, even though she knew of the partnership between the Shadows and Centauri. The blame rests squarely on the Narn government and military that played fast and loose with the truth and were stupid enough to leave their homeworld essentially unprotected. (Time for a special prosecutor.) G'Kar's uncle was fortunate to have been killed rather than face a court-martial for ignoring G'Kar's crucial information.

QMCO5
 
{snip} G'Kar's uncle was fortunate to have been killed rather than face a court-martial for ignoring G'Kar's crucial information.
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One minute before the fighting starts is a little late to make a major change in strategy.

Even if the Narns aborted the attack the Shadow ships may have simply followed them into hyperspace. When you are that close to an ambush you are caught.
 
IIRC, Delenn said the Rangers did know that the Centauri would attack the Narn.

edit: I'm not sure. Maybe she said they just knew the Centauri were involved with the Shadows. Maybe I'll re-watch that.
 
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