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Old August 1st 14, 17:16   #31
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Re: B5 Feature Film to be scriptedTRUE! There will be a feature film going into produ

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I've also been thinking that maybe it was a mistake to try to extend the series at all. The whole thing should have been self-contained, and resolve the Telepath Crisis within the 110 episodes as well.
I could have articulated that better. Sorry. What I meant was "B5 was conceived of as a 110 episode show. They could easily have included the entire Telepath Crisis *WITHIN* that 110 episodes."
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Old August 1st 14, 17:40   #32
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Re: B5 Feature Film to be scriptedTRUE! There will be a feature film going into produ

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- what became of Lennier?
- The Telepath Crisis?
- Bester and Garibaldi?
- The Drakh?
- Others.

I get that some of these were "Life goes on" things, and I'm cool with that, but a lot were just sloppy, or hail-mary passes he threw assuming he'd be in a position to catch 'em later on. And he wasn't. And that irritates me.
What makes you think he was assuming that he'd be in a position to "catch 'em later"? None of those things occurred *on the station & within the five-year history* and therefore weren't part of the 'documentary'. As it is, Bester and the Drakh were nicely covered in the books and Lennier would have been if the script for "The Path of Sorrows" had gone as planned.

One either accepts what the show purported to be and realize that history isn't neat and tidy or you complain about sloppiness that doesn't really exist.

Jan
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Old August 2nd 14, 15:25   #33
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Re: B5 Feature Film to be scriptedTRUE! There will be a feature film going into produ

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What makes you think he was assuming that he'd be in a position to "catch 'em later"? None of those things occurred *on the station & within the five-year history* and therefore weren't part of the 'documentary'. As it is, Bester and the Drakh were nicely covered in the books and Lennier would have been if the script for "The Path of Sorrows" had gone as planned.

One either accepts what the show purported to be and realize that history isn't neat and tidy or you complain about sloppiness that doesn't really exist.

Jan
Ok, wellllll most obviously, the repeated attempts to revive the franchise strongly imply he didn't intend to just stop. From the first season, he said he had interest in doing an off-B5 spinoff. "Crusade" wasn't that (It was "Babylon Prime") but clearly he never intended to just stop. It was never *just* about the station, but that particular series was.

Secondly: setting up a conflict that we'll never see the payoff for is not JMS style. He's not aristotelian. (Nor are any good-hearted storytellers, really)

Thirdly, Crusade was clearly intended to catch at least some of these pitches, hence the Bester and other Teep episodes. Fourthly, JMS own comments about wanting to do a Telepath War movie.

Fourthly, and I can not stress this enough, the books don't count. I don't care what anyone says, I dont' care what JMS said, the books represent a deuterocanon at best. If JMS decided to do a new story about Garibaldi and Galen, do you think he'd hesitate one second and think, "Oh, wait, this conflicts with that crappy thing John Vornhort wrote twenty years ago, I can't do it. Oh well." No. The books in every franchise are subject to change without notice. JMS wanted tie ins, and he *wanted* them to count, but in actual practice that didn't work. The second batch did tie in (And I take them more seriously, though I've talked with a couple authors and they've said JMS didn't really give them much input), but they were basically a stopgap. Worth reading, but not scripture.

The only thing that counts is what you saw on screen.

Even JMS has said that most of the books can't be taken terribly seriously. Of the first batch, only one and a half count.
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Old August 3rd 14, 06:53   #34
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Re: B5 Feature Film to be scriptedTRUE! There will be a feature film going into produ

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And I take them more seriously, though I've talked with a couple authors and they've said JMS didn't really give them much input
Who?

How much was written for the trilogies isn't a secret. Although the Psi Corps outline isn't there, we can read the full detailed Centauri trilogy and Psi Corps trilogy outlines that Joe wrote in the volume 2.5 script book.

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The only thing that counts is what you saw on screen.
Not sure why you are the arbiter of what counts and what doesn't, but I'll play:

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- what became of Lennier?
Dead. "Sleeping in Light."

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- The Telepath Crisis?
The Psi Corps had a fleet built up in hyperspace. "The Corps Is Mother, The Corps Is Father"
Lyta had a fund to fight back against the Psi Corps built Garibaldi built up by 2264. "Wheel of Fire"

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- Bester and Garibaldi?
Lyta removed Garibaldi's block. "Wheel of Fire."
Garibaldi survived. "Sleeping in Light"

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- The Drakh?
Took over Centauri Prime ("Movements of Fire and Shadow" / "The Fall of Centauri Prime")
Londo freed Sheridan with the promise that Sheridan help them. ("War Without End")

So...what wasn't answered exactly?

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Old August 3rd 14, 09:52   #35
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Re: B5 Feature Film to be scriptedTRUE! There will be a feature film going into produ

Kevin, as long as you insist on lumping all the books together, your stance that the novels don't count makes some sense. But why do so? The information on what's canon and what's not is freely available so such insistence just doesn't make sense and is kind of like cutting off your own nose to spite your face to discount them. They really enhance the B5 universe.

Jan
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Old August 3rd 14, 23:54   #36
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Re: B5 Feature Film to be scriptedTRUE! There will be a feature film going into produ

Just like the proposed Farscape film, I'm watching tentatively but not getting excited until filming begins.

It's too bad they couldn't get a reboot for TV as that's where the epic structure shines.
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Old August 4th 14, 09:55   #37
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Re: B5 Feature Film to be scriptedTRUE! There will be a feature film going into produ

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Huh? The telepath war isn't the five-year storyline. The story is the story of the station.
Well with that kind of thinking we shouldn't have seen the Narn-Centauri war, or the Minbari Civil War, or the Mars resistance, or any of that as they were not the story of the station either.

Of course the Telepath War isn't the five-year storyline. But it is a big part of it, simmering from the first season, and the telepaths were part of most of the major plots. We got the first round of the war between Bester and Edgars in season 4 – Bester won. When Sheridan defeated President Clark, the Psi Corps should have been exposed for what they were. Sheridan knew the Psi Corps were too dangerous to be left to their own devices, it was a situation where one side or the other had to act to take the advantage. Instead we got Byron which really didn't take things as forward as they should have given the amount of time devoted to him. The Telepath War really could have been part of the fifth season but JMS held off on it so he could save it for some other project after the series ended, and that's the point I disagree with as leaving it out not only damaged the fifth season in my eyes but went against the principle of "this is a five year story and no more".
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Old August 4th 14, 11:40   #38
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Re: B5 Feature Film to be scriptedTRUE! There will be a feature film going into produ

When did the telepath war become part of the 5 year arc?

Surely the 5 year arc set up the creation of the IA, via the part B5 played in it. All the parts such as the Narn/Centauri conflict, Minbari Civil War, Mars resistance, Shadow/Vorlon Conflict were part of setting this end point up. The Telepath war wasn't. Sure Sheridan fortold the conflict in rising stars, but it was not a part of the 5 year arc. It was seperate. Self contained. A Possible follow on - or as a part of something else. We even got to see it's endpoint in Crusade. Does that mean it should have been shoehorned into B5? I dunno. I didn't write it, but the guy that did - didn't see the point of putting it in. Maybe he has plans for it in the future? Who knows?

Babylon 5 is the story of the last of the Babylon stations.
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Old August 4th 14, 13:13   #39
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Re: B5 Feature Film to be scriptedTRUE! There will be a feature film going into produ

JMS obviously felt the telepath issue was important enough to the Interstellar Alliance and Babylon 5 to allow Byron's story to dominate the first half of the fifth season. He could have easily tailored the Telepath War plot so that B5 was pivotal in the storyline.
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Old August 4th 14, 17:04   #40
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Re: B5 Feature Film to be scriptedTRUE! There will be a feature film going into produ

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Who?
Condition on anonymity, sorry. Writers don't get paid much, and working writers don't want to endanger their income by saying things that may be interpreted badly about folks who gave them work. Added to which I've been trying to crack into the professional writer biz for years, and I'm sure blowing people's secrets (Psssst...guess who Bruce Boxleitner's ghostwriter is!) is not a way to endear myself.

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Not sure why you are the arbiter of what counts and what doesn't, but I'll play:
Same thing that makes you decide I'm probably not the arbiter.

As a general rule of thumb in fictional universes, stuff you see onscreen counts. Stuff you didn't doesn't. Star Trek III: The Search for Spock counts. The Star Trek/Madballs crossover comic doesn't.

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Dead. "Sleeping in Light."

Garibaldi survived. "Sleeping in Light"

Took over Centauri Prime ("Movements of Fire and Shadow" / "The Fall of Centauri Prime")
Londo freed Sheridan with the promise that Sheridan help them. ("War Without End")

So...what wasn't answered exactly?
Yes, yes, yes, I know all that. I've read the books.

Lets put this another way: Let's say "The Empire Strikes Back" was a bomb, so "Return of the Jedi" never got made. Later on, Lucas has some of his friends write a couple books telling you, more or less, what would have happened. Would you be satisfied by that, or would you rather actually SEE the movie?

I'd rather see the movie. Even if I know what's going to happen, I'd rather see it. That's all.
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