A Question on "Signs and Portents"

A Question on \"Signs and Portents\"

I've probably seen "Signs and Portents" more than any other ep, which is not a bad thing, but it does lead me to a question about the first Kosh scene. Morden's coming down a hallway, sees or senses Kosh, and ducks away up a side corridor. Kosh cruises by without any obvious reaction.

Until just a few days ago I assumed that Kosh did indeed know that Morden and the Shadows were there, but was simply reminding them of his presence without confronting them.

But when I watched it on the DVD with JMS's commentary, I noticed two things. One, which I had forgotten, was that Kosh was just arriving on the station, which makes it look more like a coincidental meeting than a planned "reminder" on Kosh's part.

Two, JMS in the commentary chides Kosh for being a "big-shot Vorlon" (or words to that effect) and missing the Shadows completely.

So, here's the question. What precisely happened there? Did Kosh simply miss them, or did he not bother with a confrontation just there? Was JMS kidding? Thoughts, please.

On a related note, I've seen two versions of what Morden was doing in the second encounter with Kosh. One, Morden was headed for Sinclair but Kosh stopped him. Two, Morden was avoiding Sinclair, and Kosh's warning simply applied to everyone on the station, not just the Humans.


I guess that makes this two questions, really. Anyone got any answers to go with them?

Re: A Question on \"Signs and Portents\"

One, which I had forgotten, was that Kosh was just arriving on the station, which makes it look more like a coincidental meeting than a planned "reminder" on Kosh's part.

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It's been a little bit since I've seen this ep, but what did you mean by that?

Re: A Question on \"Signs and Portents\"

i think Kosh didnt see him the first time, he was just comming out of the docking bay which was nearby (his ship just arrived), but im not totally sure on that one.

One, Morden was headed for Sinclair but Kosh stopped him. Two, Morden was avoiding Sinclair, and Kosh's warning simply applied to everyone on the station, not just the Humans.

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Morden was on his way to ask the big question to Sinclair. Kosh´s warning was applied just to the humans, since "they" are a race they really want on their side in the shadow war. no need on stopping Morden from visiting the Minbari cause Delenn already knew what was going on.

but of course that didnt stop the Shadows, since Kosh didnt allow them to see Sinclair, they went for Clarck directly. hey, and that leads to another question, would Earth have sided with the Shadows had Kosh given the opportunity to Sinclair to meet with Morden?

Re: A Question on \"Signs and Portents\"

Actually what I heard was that Morden was NOT on his way to see Sinclair to ask him the question --- because he didn't need to.

Morden and the Shadows already found a human who gave them the answer to the question they were looking for --- Vice President Clark. They had no need to contact Sinclair or the humans because they already had much success on Earth itself. They already had things in motion back there which is why you kept hearing about changes on Earth, changes that werent for the better. When Kosh said "they are not for you" I believe meant to the other races in general. But he had no need to meet Sinclair for the reasons stated above.

Re: A Question on \"Signs and Portents\"

Actually what I heard was that Morden was NOT on his way to see Sinclair to ask him the question --- because he didn't need to.

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I just checked the lurker´s guide and it appears you are right, Morden was under orders not to approach Sinclair. "They" still refers to the humans though.

They already had things in motion back there which is why you kept hearing about changes on Earth, changes that werent for the better.

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Really? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif i always thought it was a "normal" reaction to almost being exterminated by the Minbary. Everyone being pissed at aliens in general, young people specially. thats something that happens today, and thats were i thought Homeguard and all those anti alien groups came from. is it ever stated it was all part of the shadow´s plan?

Re: A Question on \"Signs and Portents\"

Really? i always thought it was a "normal" reaction to almost being exterminated by the Minbari. Everyone being pissed at aliens in general, young people specially. thats something that happens today, and thats were i thought Homeguard and all those anti alien groups came from. is it ever stated it was all part of the shadow´s plan?

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I always assumed that the Shadows played on the growing fear of aliens. The episode "Voices of Authority" makes it clear that the Shadows were working with Clark. But if it wasn't for the general fear of aliens in the first place, a lot of the things things that Clark did could never have happened.

Re: A Question on \"Signs and Portents\"

i think Kosh didnt see him the first time, he was just comming out of the docking bay which was nearby (his ship just arrived), but im not totally sure on that one.

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Since Morden always seemed to be escorted by a couple of Shadows, wouldn't Kosh have sensed them? No need to see him, wouldn't Kosh have known even without that?

Re: A Question on \"Signs and Portents\"

The books, especially the third mage book, makes it appear as if the Vorlons can sense them easily, but, perhaps they were not that close to Morden afterall, i mean, he literally jumped into the transport tube after mollari, not giving any Shadows to enter there before the doors closed.

Re: A Question on \"Signs and Portents\"

Yeah, the Shadows might have gotten separated -- but a) they move fast enough to deal with all the other doors, apparently, or they'd be noticed, and b) there's no way of telling how long it is between Morden's talk with Londo and the first encounter with Kosh. If anything longer than a few minutes elapsed, I'd really doubt that the Shadows and their agent would remain split up for long.

Oh, and Elizar -- what I meant by a coincidental meeting was Kosh and the Shadows essentially bumping into one another accidentally, and what I meant by a planned reminder was the possibility that Kosh simply showed himself to the Shadows, without speaking to them, as a warning to stear clear. Of course, without any dialogue on Kosh's part that's totally my inference, but it makes sense when you consider Kosh's abilities and basic reticence. Why talk when you can send your message simply by walking by?