Season 5: List of grievances

A_M_Swallow said:

It is quite normal for aristocrats to take a short commission in the military after leaving university. Then they either go home to run the family estate or take a job as a diplomat. (See Britain's Royal Princes.) That career path fits Londo.

If Londo reached the rank equivalent to full lieutenant he may have had a platoon of ~30 men under his command.

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I stand corrected. That makes perfect sense. And he probably only saw one or two battles in that time. Against an unstated enemy. (If he'd fought the Narn - which Emperor Turhan seemed to be deliberately avoiding - he'd definitely have mentioned it)

Republibot 3.0 said:

Ragzus said:

I know not techincally season 5 but the final episode where they blew up babylon 5.
UGH!
I know it was symbolism john is gone the ISA is active but the story for the most part is done, but i felt it was too final.

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There is no logical, rational reason for the destruction of the Babylon 5 station. I mean, we're still flying 50-year-old B52 bombers, and we have no plans to replace them within the next generation. Aircraft Carriers have a life expectency of about 50 years. You're going to tell me that a five-mile-long station has a life expenctency of only a quarter-century?

Nonsense!

And the idea that it became a navigational hazard? Again: nonsense. Space is really, really big. It wouldn't be a hazard for anyone unless they were possibly in orbit around Epsilon Eridani III. Which, I might add, it appeared nobody was. For a centrally-located nexus of trade kinda' solar system, it appeared abandoned.

And how is BLOWING SOMETHING UP supposed to make it LESS of a navigational hazard? You've traded one big hunk of easily-avoidable metal in for a hundred trillion bits of shrapnel.

The REAL reason B5 got blowed up is because JMS included all those scenes of B5 exploding in the early episodes of B5, then changed his mind as to where the story was going. But he'd had so many precognitions about it that he couldn't just handwave it away. So instead he came up with a cockamamie explanation and used it as the final scene in the series.

(The original concept was that there would be TWO TV series. Babylon 5 and Bablyon Prime. The space station would be blown up at the end of the B5 series, with all the surviving principle characters running for their lives. The end, thanks for watching. Have a nice life. Assuming that downer of an ending didn't drive away audiences "I watched this for five years....AND THEY LOSE?" then the "Babylon Prime" spinoff would have involved the surviving characters traveling back in time to steal Babylon 4, which they'd bring to the present to use as their base. It would be renamed "Babylon Prime.")

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I agree, and that plot sounds pretty cool though b4 was then used in the plot as a base for the last shadow war but it would've fit in the future having apparently been similar (no need for new sets) and more heavily armed, yay!

From a show stand point somebody in charge can order the station being blown up, but i imagine in the universe created they wouldn't let it happen, after all so much happened on that station, Cults have been formed from much less.
A babylon 5 cult could've then been another story in its self following the beliefs of babylon 5 but far enough ideals from the rangers and ISA to cause a clash between beliefs.

That is when the cult being defeated could've blown up the station to kill themselves/take as many ISA with them.
That'd be one of the only scenario's i could think of where the station would be destroyed (freak accidents aside)

On the matter of Londo he clearly was "Handy" or in the universe at least with his short sword katari? and his friend who "carried this blade during blah blah" made it sound like they actively used them during combat missions i get kind of how, you'd have guns but close combat our armies still use stabby bits to poke people.

I can't really imagine a war where both sides would just run around with swords, though klingons did fairly well in that respect in trek i mean the saying don't bring a knife to a gun fight is a known saying for a reason but they still did.
So perhaps whoever they were fighting (The dilguard?) also used blades.

Though thinking on the Dilguard(sp) if the Centari took them seriously Earth wouldn't have been able to "defeat them" as gloriously as they seemed to gloat they had.
Although its certainly possible that the EA had assistance from the Centari in drawing their forces off so the EA could deliver a finishing blow from another direction but the centari never got thanks or any mention from the aliens that would've been indebted to them.
Although the centari could've then used that fact to take as much land/money as they'd offer being seen as nothing more than mercenary's which then wouldn't of got them any mention or thanks.


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It is also possible it was a small/short war between rival houses as often happens in that kind of government/society which would've been more reason nobles of supporting houses would lead armies against rival houses etc.

Republibot 3.0 said:

Ragzus said:

I know not techincally season 5 but the final episode where they blew up babylon 5.
UGH!
I know it was symbolism john is gone the ISA is active but the story for the most part is done, but i felt it was too final.

Click to expand...

There is no logical, rational reason for the destruction of the Babylon 5 station. I mean, we're still flying 50-year-old B52 bombers, and we have no plans to replace them within the next generation. Aircraft Carriers have a life expectency of about 50 years. You're going to tell me that a five-mile-long station has a life expenctency of only a quarter-century?

Nonsense!

And the idea that it became a navigational hazard? Again: nonsense. Space is really, really big. It wouldn't be a hazard for anyone unless they were possibly in orbit around Epsilon Eridani III. Which, I might add, it appeared nobody was. For a centrally-located nexus of trade kinda' solar system, it appeared abandoned.

And how is BLOWING SOMETHING UP supposed to make it LESS of a navigational hazard? You've traded one big hunk of easily-avoidable metal in for a hundred trillion bits of shrapnel.

The REAL reason B5 got blowed up is because JMS included all those scenes of B5 exploding in the early episodes of B5, then changed his mind as to where the story was going. But he'd had so many precognitions about it that he couldn't just handwave it away. So instead he came up with a cockamamie explanation and used it as the final scene in the series.

(The original concept was that there would be TWO TV series. Babylon 5 and Bablyon Prime. The space station would be blown up at the end of the B5 series, with all the surviving principle characters running for their lives. The end, thanks for watching. Have a nice life. Assuming that downer of an ending didn't drive away audiences "I watched this for five years....AND THEY LOSE?" then the "Babylon Prime" spinoff would have involved the surviving characters traveling back in time to steal Babylon 4, which they'd bring to the present to use as their base. It would be renamed "Babylon Prime.")

Click to expand...

For what it's worth, the destruction of the B5 station was some beautiful imagery, that tugs at the heart. But from a story perspective, I agree it didn't make much sense. I've never heard that Babylon Prime story though, that would have been cool, maybe it would have done better than Crusade

Ragzus said:

Though thinking on the Dilguard(sp) if the Centari took them seriously Earth wouldn't have been able to "defeat them" as gloriously as they seemed to gloat they had.
Although its certainly possible that the EA had assistance from the Centari in drawing their forces off so the EA could deliver a finishing blow from another direction but the centari never got thanks or any mention from the aliens that would've been indebted to them.
Although the centari could've then used that fact to take as much land/money as they'd offer being seen as nothing more than mercenary's which then wouldn't of got them any mention or thanks.


-
It is also possible it was a small/short war between rival houses as often happens in that kind of government/society which would've been more reason nobles of supporting houses would lead armies against rival houses etc.

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I think the latter's more likely. Or a minor revolt from one of the republic's OTHER slave species. Or raiders. JMS has said the Centauri weren't involved in the Dilgar war at all.

Red45 said:

For what it's worth, the destruction of the B5 station was some beautiful imagery, that tugs at the heart. But from a story perspective, I agree it didn't make much sense. I've never heard that Babylon Prime story though, that would have been cool, maybe it would have done better than Crusade

Click to expand...

Oh, well, merry belated Christmas: here's the whole story

Here's part one, which is more-or-less about the show we got (or at least the first half of it)

and here's part two, which is about the originally-intended spinoff, "Babylon Prime"

Republibot 3.0 said:

Red45 said:

For what it's worth, the destruction of the B5 station was some beautiful imagery, that tugs at the heart. But from a story perspective, I agree it didn't make much sense. I've never heard that Babylon Prime story though, that would have been cool, maybe it would have done better than Crusade

Click to expand...

Oh, well, merry belated Christmas: here's the whole story

Here's part one, which is more-or-less about the show we got (or at least the first half of it)

and here's part two, which is about the originally-intended spinoff, "Babylon Prime"

Click to expand...

I'm glad what was made was made.
But mostly because i am the once tried what i know is better than what i don't know.
It could've been good, i would've liked him to release it as maybe a book or comic series.
But i still love the current universe and characters too much to change anything besides the last season.

When i first watched crusade i was like UGHH my eyes, somebody pass me the spoons so i can remove my eyes!
but now i've mellowed to it, it isn't the greatest i don't like the fact no old cast is used (cameo's dont count and new captain isn't an old cast member!)

I think it would've worked better if they had shown rangers in danger away from the ship as well as what we did, it felt like at the end of 5 seasons we had a huge universe and we just go hole up on some new fancy ship like the first season of b5.

Ragzus said:

Republibot 3.0 said:

Red45 said:

For what it's worth, the destruction of the B5 station was some beautiful imagery, that tugs at the heart. But from a story perspective, I agree it didn't make much sense. I've never heard that Babylon Prime story though, that would have been cool, maybe it would have done better than Crusade

Click to expand...

Oh, well, merry belated Christmas: here's the whole story

Here's part one, which is more-or-less about the show we got (or at least the first half of it)

and here's part two, which is about the originally-intended spinoff, "Babylon Prime"

Click to expand...

I'm glad what was made was made.
But mostly because i am the once tried what i know is better than what i don't know.
It could've been good, i would've liked him to release it as maybe a book or comic series.
But i still love the current universe and characters too much to change anything besides the last season.

When i first watched crusade i was like UGHH my eyes, somebody pass me the spoons so i can remove my eyes!
but now i've mellowed to it, it isn't the greatest i don't like the fact no old cast is used (cameo's dont count and new captain isn't an old cast member!)

I think it would've worked better if they had shown rangers in danger away from the ship as well as what we did, it felt like at the end of 5 seasons we had a huge universe and we just go hole up on some new fancy ship like the first season of b5.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I think ultimately Crusade probably would have been a pretty good show, but I have to confess the idea of a ship-based show struck me as pretty disappointing at the time.